37 minutes ago, DarthSempai said:

Because, as you pointed out the faction is unable to be built (efficiently) in other ways than : 2 big aces, plus filler. (Since point change to the upsilon at least)
Because of the Elite nature of all the FO ships, and the cost of their platform, they really struggle to bring 4+ ships to the table without gimping themselves, and they have a very narrow choice of aces, so really, the faction has 2 ships, Kylo and Quickdraw, and you choose wich one you prefer to build around. If you're answer is you like both, cool but get used to having a massive bid and also every game being kinda the same. It gets boring quickly. They have the same choice in the whole faction as some ship chassis have, figuratively.

A 5 ship FO efficiency list with QD, 2 Zetas, a base Silencer, and a base FO won a 40+ player Hyperspace Trial, 5 Omegas with Fanatical and Optics won another 40 player Hyperspace Trial and a 26 player hyperspace event, Kylo + Backdraft (naked, not an ace) + 2 missile zetas got top 2 in a 25 player HST...and that's just since the 20th of July. 5x Zetas with missiles and passive are showing up in some placements also. I don't know that FO list building is as restrictive as it's been made out to be.

I'm going to say about 65.

I agree that it's essentially similar to the Grand Inquisitor; if you take his ability to make him 3/3/2/2 and his linked boost/roll to focus to be equivalent to fine-tuned thrusters.

Vonreg is clearly better - I6 and you can use his ability to get focus & lock without spending eye-watering points on supernatural reflexes - but I don't think he's that much better. A lot will depend on whether the Baron can take systems or modification upgrades.

It does really make for an impressive set of options for the First Order. I can't see Vonreg being 71 points plus (that's more than Vader !) and that means a squad of Midnight, Quickdraw-with-Gunner, Null and Vonreg offers the First Order a 4-ship squad consisting entirely of I6+ ships.

He's better than Soontir Fel but not as good as Fenn Rau. 60ish?

13 minutes ago, Okapi said:

He's better than Soontir Fel but not as good as Fenn Rau. 60ish?

Sounds believable. I hadn't thought of Fenn Rau.

He matches Fenn for hit points and has shields instead of hull. Fenn's linked reposition-to-focus versus fine-tuned thrusters feels like a wash (Fenn can roll or boost, Vonreg gets the more tolerable deplete/strain instead of stress).

BUT Fenn's ability feels much better, and you've also got Face-off to account for.

Assuming ~ 60, that means a squad of:

• Vonreg
• Quickdraw
  • Special Forces Gunner
  • Fire Control System
• Midnight
  • Fanatical
  • Pattern Analyser
• Null

That actually looks quite imposing as aces squads go.

34 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Sounds believable. I hadn't thought of Fenn Rau.

He matches Fenn for hit points and has shields instead of hull. Fenn's linked reposition-to-focus versus fine-tuned thrusters feels like a wash (Fenn can roll or boost, Vonreg gets the more tolerable deplete/strain instead of stress).

BUT Fenn's ability feels much better, and you've also got Face-off to account for.

Assuming ~ 60, that means a squad of:

• Vonreg
• Quickdraw
  • Special Forces Gunner
  • Fire Control System
• Midnight
  • Fanatical
  • Pattern Analyser
• Null

That actually looks quite imposing as aces squads go.

Yeah, the comparison with Fenn is good but you've got to consider how squads can be built too. That's why I think he probably needs to be Fenn prices or higher, because there are a bunch of other cheapish I6s with strong abilities in his faction, and 3 I6s in one squad is probably too much. Let alone 3 cheaply tooled plus an I7 until damaged, or 3 well tooled 6s.

Like Vonreg plus ABs, Predator, QD plus SFG, FCS, PA, Shield, Midnight plus Fanatical, PA, Shield would probably fit at that point, and that's a LOT.