I'm still waiting for an official response

1 hour ago, ovinomanc3r said:

During a ignition attack there is a special rule for gathering dice.

What is interesting here is that Ignition attacks must specifically allow you to declare target beyond your attack range.

They did that piece of rulings to not break the game as you say. They didn't for HFZ.

However, as I said before I'm on the boat of HFZ firing at long range, it is just that I don't see it doing it per the rules.

I talked to Karneck about it. According to him, how 'gather dice' works is that when you declare an attack you gather dice for the specific range, if you can't gather any dice for the range then the attack is cancelled. But that isn't actually the part that's tripping you and me up. I did a little digging and I think I've found the definitive explanation:

Look at the requirements of the card:

1) 'While attacking...'

2) '... a squadron ...'

3) '... before you gather dice ...'

Those are it. The timing window is actually massive. Iv'e found atleast two different places where it can slot in BEFORE you measure range during the 'Declare attack step'.

So what it looks like the timing happens something like this:

1) Declare the target (ALL of HFZ's conditions are filled here)

- HFZ has an opportunity to slot in here (the early timing)

2) Check if it is in the arc (these two are separate steps in the 'check if squad/defending hullzone is in the arc and in range' sub-step on page 7 of the rules reference )

- HFZ has an opportunity to slot in here (the late timing)

3) Check if it is in range

4) You know if the target is valid.

The key is the insanely broad timing, just fulfill the condition of declaring the defending squadron and you can replace the blues with reds.

2 hours ago, antisocialmunky said:

The timing window is actually massive...

Timing windows are very rarely massive. They are usually precise. As they are here; from the Rules Reference, page 5, "Effect Use and Timing":

Quote

A “before” effect occurs immediately before the specified event and cannot occur again for that instance of the event.

Meaning that "before you gather dice" has to be the thing you do in between whatever you normally do before gathering dice and gathering dice. So let's go to the "Attack" timing and find out when that happens. Page 2, Attack:

Quote

1 . Declare Target: ... If the attacker is a ship, the defending squadron or hull zone must be inside the attacking hull zone’s firing arc and at attack range of the attacking hull zone.

2 . Roll Attack Dice : Gather attack dice to form the attack pool and roll those dice. Gather only the dice that are appropriate for the range of the attack as indicated by the icons on the range ruler.

If the defender is a squadron, gather the attack dice indicated in the attacker’s anti-squadron armament.

Step 1 of an Attack is "Declare Target", including measuring "line of sight" to "ensure the attack is possible and to determine if it is obstructed." Step 2 is "Roll Attack Dice" which starts with gathering the dice.

So we switch the dice over between those steps. The problem is that while the main "range" check happens while gathering dice (so after changing the colour), there's that pesky "must be ... at attack range" check in Step 1, Declare Target.

And Attack Range is defined on page 2:

Quote

A hull zone’s maximum attack range is close range if it has only black dice in its armament, medium range if it has at least one blue die, or long range if it has at least one red die.

So we have to check whether the defending squadron is at attack range in Step 1, before we switch the armament . If you have only blue anti-squadron dice normally, you can't declare a squadron at long range to be your target because that is beyond your maximum attack range. It doesn't matter that if you continued onto step 2 you would be able to gather red dice (after changing your anti-squadron armament using Heavy Fire Zone) because you never get that far.

Which may be an oversight on the part of FFG, as the "Attack Range" definition isn't part of the normal Attack step rule - it's on the other side of the page. And they've given HFZs a different timing window to Commander Sato.