Something that occurred on our last gaming night:

Enemy player is attacking with a scout, which will survive, thus making me discard.

I have a single card in my hand, " Invoke Khaines Wrath ", and enough resources to play it.

My question is, can i play it, and what is the proper sequence? When does the scout discard effect kicks in exactly?

We ruled that i could play it in response to the scout effect, but im still unsure.

The problem here is that the scout effect refers to surviving combat and combat is not defined. Does it refer to surviving the apply damage stage or to the end of the Battlefield phase.

The Scouts ability is not an action and is not listed as a forced effect. If survive combat means surviving the apply damage stage then the Invoke would go. If it means survive the battlefield phase then who knows what happens. Scout card removal is not an action or a forced effect so it isn't clear when it applies. You can play Invoke at the end of the Battlefield phase but we dont really know if that happens before or after the scout effect.

The rulebook says:

Scout

After combat damage is applied, the controller of
any surviving participating unit(s) with the Scout
keyword forces his opponent to discard one card at
random from his hand for each of his participating
units with Scout that survived the combat.

So, Invoke's will go.

Scout would initiate before your opportunity to play IKW. It should also be noted since keywords are not actions you may not respond to them in anyway. Their initiation may cause a Constant effect to initiate, or even a Forced Effect to trigger, but you may not respond to it yourself with a player action.

dormouse said:

Can you give me a reference to this ruling?

Does it mean only cards played and "Actions:" generate a queue to which a player can add actions/tactics to?

Tobogan said:

Thanks for the reference, got it.

The rulebook discusses playing actions only in response to actions and Actions : and a forced effect is neither.

Page 15, rulebook, "Actions are denoted by a bold “ Action :” trigger on a card."

Page 15 Rulebook, "Actions can also be played or triggered in response to other actions."

Page 15, rulebook, "Forced effects are denoted by a bold “Forced:” trigger on a card. Forced effects are triggered by specific occurrences throughout a game, and they occur automatically, whether the card’s controller wants them to resolve or not. Forced effects always occur immediately whenever their trigger is met, and they cannot be cancelled or interrupted by other actions."

I think the question was, at which action window will Shades work and when will he be able to play Invoke Khaine's Wrath.

dormouse said:

Ok, thks, got it.

Tobogan said:

dormouse was replying to another question that had been raised.