While you defend against attack and you are in Amidala arc, can you modify 2nd focus using Palpatine crew from another of your ships?

Padme limits the number of eyes "That" ship can modify

While an enemy ship in your defends or performs an attack, that ship can modify only 1 result (other results can still be modified).

Palpatine, on the other hand, allows a 2nd ship To spend force to modify :

While another friendly ship defends or performs an attack, you may spend 1 to modify 1 of its dice as though that ship had spent 1 .

In my opinion, t he second ship is the one modifying the second die.

for the second part, I have doubts if palpa also allows you to do The force modifications available To that ship:

Whisper+bro , change To a crit? I think yes.

vader+brilliant evasión, change 2 dice To evade? Nope, (palpa stated change 1 die)

Defender rolls 2 focus results, uses Palp force to modify one of the results to evade. Who did the modification? Imo ship with Palpa, not defender.

Now defender spends his focus token to change 2nd focus result to evade. Right?

"You may spend 1 force to modify 1 of its dice as though that ship had spent 1 force."

On the one hand, Palp's ship is clearly the one spending the force and modding the die.

On the other hand, he's doing it as though that ship had spent a force, which I would argue includes any limitations on modifying like 'only one eye'.

So, in short, unclear, needs FAQ/TO ruling.

Wouldnt that just mean that you need to use Palp first to modify focus, so the limitation is not the problem? and than just modify another focus

I would argue that Emperor Palpatine would not bypass Padme's ability, due to Papa P's wording. The card specifies that you can use Palp's force token to modify an eyeball result '...as though that ship had spent 1 [FORCE]'. This would mean that Palp's spending of a Force token would act as if the other ship was spending it directly, and thus falls foul of Padme's ability.

Wouldnt that be just a description of how Palpa can modify the dice? It clearly says YOU can modify ITS dice, but needs explanation how, and this is where "is though.." comes in and clarifies that Palpa can change force>hit or force>evade, or simpler same as if defender used force.

'...as though t  hat ship had spent 1 [F  ORCE]  '  

yes, but it was the Palp ship that spended the force and modified the dice, no? So Padme won't trigger.

As though that ship had spent 1 force doesn't include just the bits of spending 1 force that ou want, it also includes the ones you don't....

I agree that Palping an eye counts towards Padme's limit.

4 hours ago, AceDogbert said:

I would argue that Emperor Palpatine would not bypass Padme's ability, due to Papa P's wording. The card specifies that you can use Palp's force token to modify an eyeball result '...as though that ship had spent 1 [FORCE]'. This would mean that Palp's spending of a Force token would act as if the other ship was spending it directly , and thus falls foul of Padme's ability.

I find this convincing enough. It wouldn't be bad to get an official ruling, but I think this is the best current argument.

not clear.

to me, it reads as if padmé does not block palp, since palps card states that it's the ship palp is on that's modifying the die, even if it's modyfying it as though the ship whose die it's modifying had spent a (force charge).

2 hours ago, meffo said:

not clear.

to me, it reads as if padmé does not block palp, since palps card states that it's the ship palp is on that's modifying the die, even if it's modyfying it as though the ship whose die it's modifying had spent a (force charge).

For my understanding it means that if Palp must do it in the same way as the defender would and if the defender cannot modify another focus result even with the force then Palp cannot.

I mean lets assume the defender has the force and modified focus then Padme will block another modification no matter where the force comes from.

3 hours ago, meffo said:

not clear.

to me, it reads as if padmé does not block palp, since palps card states that it's the ship palp is on that's modifying the die, even if it's modyfying it as though the ship whose die it's modifying had spent a (force charge).

I agree. If Palp was worded "you may spend one force and that ship may modify one of it's dice..." it would count toward the limit, but in this case it does read that it's Palp/Palp's ship doing the modifying, not the defending/attaching ship.

Ill throw in my 2 cents here.

FFG changed some of the wording from 1E to 2E on many cards. Palp is one of them.

In 1E, Palp read...

Quote

"Once per round, before a friendly ship rolls dice, you may name a die result. After rolling, you must change 1 of its dice results to the named result. That die result cannot be modified again."

It was ruled that, since the card is stating "You must change", it is referring to the ship carrying Palp, so 1E palp *could* infact modify dice that were restricted from doing so.. See Omega Leader ruling.

Quote

If “Omega Leader” has an enemy ship locked, and Emperor Palpatine is equipped to a different enemy ship, the ship with Emperor Palpatine equipped may modify one of the locked ship’s dice.

Now, i know its kinda bad to reference 1E rulings for 2E judgments, but my take is, If they wanted 2E palp to work like 1E palp (that his ship was modifying, and not the target ship itself) then they wouldn't have re-worded him to include " as though that ship had ".

So i would say, in 2E palp is limited by Padme, and that him modifying the die result, means the ship he is targeting, is modifying the die result for mechanical reasons.

51 minutes ago, Lyianx said:

Ill throw in my 2 cents here.

FFG changed some of the wording from 1E to 2E on many cards. Palp is one of them.

In 1E, Palp read...

It was ruled that, since the card is stating "You must change", it is referring to the ship carrying Palp, so 1E palp *could* infact modify dice that were restricted from doing so.. See Omega Leader ruling.

Now, i know its kinda bad to reference 1E rulings for 2E judgments, but my take is, If they wanted 2E palp to work like 1E palp (that his ship was modifying, and not the target ship itself) then they wouldn't have re-worded him to include " as though that ship had ".

So i would say, in 2E palp is limited by Padme, and that him modifying the die result, means the ship he is targeting, is modifying the die result for mechanical reasons.

RR 2.0:
Use of “You” Many pilot and ship abilities use the word “you” to refer to the ship card’s corresponding ship. Upgrade, damage, and condition cards that use the word “you” refer to the ship to which the card has been dealt or equipped. Card effects that use “you” always refer to the ship or remote, not the player

if they wanted the modification done by the other ship, they would simply word it as "other ship can spend your force to modify its dice"

and yet, if they wanted the modification done by the ship palp is on, they could have simply kept the wording as "you may spend 1 [force] to modify 1 of its dice." Period. Why add in the "as if it spent". Your own quote of what "You" means even support that.

Further more.

"as though that ship had spent 1 [force]"

ok.. so take it as, that ship has spent the force charge.. what happens when a ship spends a force charge?

Quote

While it performs an attack, a ship can spend any number of [force] during the Attack Dice step to change that number of its [focus] results to [hit] results.

also.

Quote

If an upgrade card instructs the ship to spend [force], those [force] are spent from the ship card.

So, palp is, in effect, saying the ship is spending a force charge, from its own ship card, and changing a focus to a hit result. Thus, the effect is coming from the ship palp is targeting, not the one palp is on.

Again, this is all based on what is written out there, which seem to lean more toward Padme affecting Palp, rather than Palp ignoring her.

I’m in the camp of Palp can modify a second die. Good question/discussion all around tho.

1 hour ago, Lyianx said:

and yet, if they wanted the modification done by the ship palp is on, they could have simply kept the wording as "you may spend 1 [force] to modify 1 of its dice." Period. Why add in the "as if it spent". Your own quote of what "You" means even support that. (1)

(...)

"as though that ship had spent 1 [force]"

ok.. so take it as, that ship has spent the force charge.. what happens when a ship spends a force charge? (2)

(...)

So, palp is, in effect, saying the ship is spending a force charge, from its own ship card, and changing a focus to a hit result. Thus, the effect is coming from the ship palp is targeting, not the one palp is on. (3)

(...)

If the text was to stop where you propose at (1) then we would have no way to tell how to modify that one die. There is a whole bunch of effects that modify a die. If I can "just modify" it can I just set a blank to a crit? That sure is modifying a single die.

To answer this ambiguity, the part you mention in (2) is added. You can modify it, yes, but you can only modify it the same way the chosen ship would be able to modify it if it were to spend a force charge. Not any way you want, but by the way of the Force . Could it have been worded differently? Sure could've. But I'm not sold on that it would be any clearer than how it is now. Also, it probably would miss on some tiny little interactions that presumably are taking place now (Palp-ing a ship with the Fifth Brother probably lets you flip eyeball to a crit because this is what the ship would be able to do if it had spent a force charge.

My interpretation is that you're incorrect at what you said in (3). If the chosen ship were to be the source of the effect, it would've simply said "you may spend 1 force charge to chose a friendly ship. If you do, that ship may modify one of its dice as if it had spent 1 force charge.". The wording is there, it would've been simple and easy to implement it this way. But it isn't and the ability clearly appoints "you" as the modifying actor - and @s4ndm4ns has already pointed out how strict "you" is at refering to the specific ship carrying the card.

That being said, I'm not totally sure anyone had this interaction in mind when Palp was re-worded for 2.0 as Padme probably wasn't nearly yet designed at that point. Here again, Padmé's ability might have said "more than 1 of its focus results cannot be modified" making it invariant to the source... So far my mind is made at ruling it as working due to RAW with the RAI being too hard to predict to judge upon.

The point of Palps wording is to keep ship/pilot effects from being activated with his force (I.E. 7th Sister Ability, altho it’s probably more future proofing since it doesn’t really work here anyway). It’s still Palp modding the die.

I

M

H

O

'as though that ship has spend the force'

there is nothing unclear.

———————-