I like the Nebulon, it's a pretty cool looking ship and a long range gunboat appeals to me. But it seems from how people talk about it that the majority of the ships power comes from it's titles and I'm not a great lover of titles. I like things to be able to be scaled up, I cant run a 600 point nebulon heavy fleet if each nebulon needs one of its 3 titles.

1. Is the titless nebulon good value? it seems worse than the gladiator for a similar price.
2. Same question, but my other fav ship. Is the Pelta good value?
3. If no, do you feel there room for a community driven point adjustments set? Something I've had good experience with in the past but needs the right sort of community.

The new support card can make it more durable. Auxiliary Shield Techs. Though I feel like titles are best with them.

1) Nebulon like all ships in the game are better with a title. If you are taking one as a gunboat it is hard to not take Salvation because its such a good title for that, if you are using it to push squadrons its hard to not take Yavaris because its so good at that. However if were running two nebulous I could see taking one without the title. A Nebulon wont do near as much damage as a gladiator unless you are taking salvation, but the nebulon plays a different roll than the gladiator. The nebulon should be compared to the Arquatines as they share really the same roll, perform that roll differently.

2) I have gotten value out of both variations of the petla, but its easier to get value out of the command variant as it can push squadrons and is the best decaps ship the rebels have. Its all about maximizing the value of your fleet command but being able to push squadrons and get a decent long range punch off helps. as far as the assult goes:

Pelta Assault Ship (56)
• Skilled First Officer (1)
• Intensify Firepower! (6)
• External Racks (3)
= 66 Points

use this to catch unsuspecting ships a lot of people will underestimate this guys fire power, but with Intensify and Skilled First Officer to get you the con fire command when you need it with exracks you can dump 5 black dice and 2 red so 7 dice in total and with intensify up you get some modification to help up the damage.

9 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

The new support card can make it more durable. Auxiliary Shield Techs. Though I feel like titles are best with them.

Yeah that'll combo well with them. Not really keen on the idea of needing lots of a specific upgrade to make my force viable though. I had my lifetimes fill of that in X-wing 1st edition. Glad they most removed upgrade reliance in 2nd edition (except for bombers but that's a given).

14 minutes ago, CMDR Kastor said:

Yeah that'll combo well with them. Not really keen on the idea of needing lots of a specific upgrade to make my force viable though. I had my lifetimes fill of that in X-wing 1st edition. Glad they most removed upgrade reliance in 2nd edition (except for bombers but that's a given).

I wouldn't say they are relying on AST, they are pretty durable on their own already. I feel like they will be decent against ships primarily.

Out of interest, what's the viability of running naked ships in this game? if I was to run something like

CR90 Corvette A (44)
= 44 Points
CR90 Corvette A (44)
= 44 Points
Nebulon-B Support Refit (51)
= 51 Points
Nebulon-B Support Refit (51)
• Mon Mothma (30)
= 81 Points
Pelta Command Ship (60)
• Shields to Maximum! (6)
= 66 Points
Squadrons:
• A-wing Squadron (11)
= 11 Points
Total Points: 297

Would I be asking to get my butt handed to me or can something ship heavy like that work?

I know we are starting to move into fleet build territory rather than general discussion territory but it's still relevant to the subject I guess.

1 hour ago, CMDR Kastor said:

Out of interest, what's the viability of running naked ships in this game? if I was to run something like

CR90 Corvette A (44)
= 44 Points
CR90 Corvette A (44)
= 44 Points
Nebulon-B Support Refit (51)
= 51 Points
Nebulon-B Support Refit (51)
• Mon Mothma (30)
= 81 Points
Pelta Command Ship (60)
• Shields to Maximum! (6)
= 66 Points
Squadrons:
• A-wing Squadron (11)
= 11 Points
Total Points: 297

Would I be asking to get my butt handed to me or can something ship heavy like that work?

I know we are starting to move into fleet build territory rather than general discussion territory but it's still relevant to the subject I guess.

Some ships can work pretty well naked. Corvettes are ok, but every ship can benefit from being kitt'ed out in a well-thought out manner. My first question about the above list would be:

What do you want it to do? And why 297 points and not closer 400?

1 hour ago, CMDR Kastor said:

Out of interest, what's the viability of running naked ships in this game? if I was to run something like

CR90 Corvette A (44)
= 44 Points
CR90 Corvette A (44)
= 44 Points
Nebulon-B Support Refit (51)
= 51 Points
Nebulon-B Support Refit (51)
• Mon Mothma (30)
= 81 Points
Pelta Command Ship (60)
• Shields to Maximum! (6)
= 66 Points
Squadrons:
• A-wing Squadron (11)
= 11 Points
Total Points: 297

Would I be asking to get my butt handed to me or can something ship heavy like that work?

I know we are starting to move into fleet build territory rather than general discussion territory but it's still relevant to the subject I guess.

You at least want dice control, even if it's just Intensify Firepower!. The Pelta is something you either use as a carrier (Command variant and AFFM!) or build a ship-focused fleet around (Assault variant.) They're there for the fleet command, and fleet commands need to be planned for. Also you don't want to burn dials, so Raymus Antilles or Comms Net help a lot.

As to whether you could run this as is. With Intensify Firepower it doesn't look half bad at 300 points. There's no reason not to have Salvation and Raymus in there instead of a one off A-wing.

7 minutes ago, eliteone said:

Some ships can work pretty well naked. Corvettes are ok, but every ship can benefit from being kitt'ed out in a well-thought out manner. My first question about the above list would be:

What do you want it to do? And why 297 points and not closer 400?

I think I've missed the memo here. Is 300 not the standard battle size?

29 minutes ago, CMDR Kastor said:

I think I've missed the memo here. Is 300 not the standard battle size?

Not since wave two. The current standard is 400 for tournament play.

22 minutes ago, cynanbloodbane said:

Not since wave two. The current standard is 400 for tournament play.

Oh, neat.

Well then, I guess I'll need need more corvettes. Maybe one more corvette and one more Pelta, then I can run a full ship build with both shields max and intensify firepower.

Maybe, I'd have to find a secondary market Intensify Firepower. No way a rebel focused entry player like me is going to grab one of the two most expensive imperial ships. Not any time soon anyway.

3 hours ago, CMDR Kastor said:

Out of interest, what's the viability of running naked ships in this game? if I was to run something like

CR90 Corvette A (44)
= 44 Points
CR90 Corvette A (44)
= 44 Points
Nebulon-B Support Refit (51)
= 51 Points
Nebulon-B Support Refit (51)
• Mon Mothma (30)
= 81 Points
Pelta Command Ship (60)
• Shields to Maximum! (6)
= 66 Points
Squadrons:
• A-wing Squadron (11)
= 11 Points
Total Points: 297

Would I be asking to get my butt handed to me or can something ship heavy like that work?

I know we are starting to move into fleet build territory rather than general discussion territory but it's still relevant to the subject I guess.

It's not ideal.

Dice modding is king.

3 hours ago, CMDR Kastor said:

Out of interest, what's the viability of running naked ships in this game? if I was to run something like

CR90 Corvette A (44)
= 44 Points
CR90 Corvette A (44)
= 44 Points
Nebulon-B Support Refit (51)
= 51 Points
Nebulon-B Support Refit (51)
• Mon Mothma (30)
= 81 Points
Pelta Command Ship (60)
• Shields to Maximum! (6)
= 66 Points
Squadrons:
• A-wing Squadron (11)
= 11 Points
Total Points: 297 

Would I be asking to get my butt handed to me or can something ship heavy like that work?

I know we are starting to move into fleet build territory rather than general discussion territory but it's still relevant to the subject I guess.

I mean you can run this tough I really don't think it is a very good idea. Upgrades often allow you to make a ship a lot better for only a small point cost. Lets take an extreme example. You could take an empty ISD 2 or you could for just 7 points add Gunnery Team. To shoot twice with an ISD front arc would have required you two naked ISDs but Gunnery Teams allows the same thing for just 7 points. Or the lets take Electronic Countermeasures on an ISD. For 7 points you reduce the number of games where this ISD will be destroyed by like half. That is insane value. No 7 points in ships will give you this much value.

6 hours ago, CMDR Kastor said:

Not really keen on the idea of needing lots of a specific upgrade to make my force viable though.

Your general reluctance to use upgrades in armada will not fare you well. That doesn't mean that there is no place for naked ships, but that would rather be the exception than the norm.

2 minutes ago, LordCola said:

Your general reluctance to use upgrades in armada will not fare you well. That doesn't mean that there is no place for naked ships, but that would rather be the exception than the norm.

Keyword there is specific. If a ship NEEDS a certain particular upgrade that doesn't come in it's own box then I'm pretty annoyed. I am not reluctant to use upgrades in general.

A nebulon with auxiliary shield team and the new turbolaser upgrade (for dice control, I forget its name) could be decent. As to not wanting to use too many upgrades that don’t come with the ship, some upgrades are added later and can be seen as a “fix” for an older underperforming ship. I won’t say that’s the case here, but it does make nebulons less squishy and give them dice control (DTT, TRC, or IF! can also do that though).

7 minutes ago, Captain Ordo N-11 said:

A nebulon with auxiliary shield team and the new turbolaser upgrade (for dice control, I forget its name) could be decent. As to not wanting to use too many upgrades that don’t come with the ship, some upgrades are added later and can be seen as a “fix” for an older underperforming ship. I won’t say that’s the case here, but it does make nebulons less squishy and give them dice control (DTT, TRC, or IF! can also do that though).

Indeed. By the way you want to use a DTT over the new turbolaser upgrade (LTT?) on a long range Support Nebulon. Unless you plan on making two big attacks every round like on a Star Destroyer, DTT gives you better value both point and effect wise. DTTs reroll is optional to keep and cheaper. On a Escort Nebulon it's a different story as that combo can murder a heavy fighter really well.

@CMDR Kastor for what its worth, the philosophy on balance for Armada has been to fix deficiencies in ships via upgrades that when released become more or less non-optional to make the ship "viable".

Yes this kills slot diversity for upgrades, and yes this means buying different ships to make the ships you want to use "viable". Sorry.

Beyond those bandaid upgrades, the "best in slot upgrades" are pretty well defined, though many can be situational and there does exist a fairly good amount of upgrade diversity overall. It's still probably shorter to list the viable upgrades over the garbage ones however.

That said, it's not something to be concerned about unless you are wanting to do well at anything larger than a casual store fleet patrol. You can show up to a store tournament and play some casual armada using naked ships and basically it will come down to dice luck how you do, as many of the best upgrades simply help to take the sting out of bad rolls.

If you want to run corvettes and frigates, my best suggestion would be to pick up a bunch of turbo laser reroute circuits, as they were a promo card a long time ago and so they often float around. Put TRC on everything and you take out the worst of the dice luck and give yourself a chance to actually win a game outside of the dice Gods smiling on you for 2 hours straight (something that never happens).

1 hour ago, BrobaFett said:

You can show up to a store tournament and play some casual armada using naked ships and basically it will come down to dice luck how you do, as many of the best upgrades simply help to take the sting out of bad rolls.

Bah, you are playing a different game than I am.

What determines 'how you do' is going to be how well you deploy your list and what objectives you play. Even a very bad list, with very poor dice control and mediocre rolling, can easily steamroll an opponent that you forced to take a bad objective match for.

Pick your objectives, build your list to THAT, and either directly bid for second player or (usually better) just build out to 400 pts and bring along something the enemy will never, ever, ever let you have single player for given a choice (Demolisher is my own favorite, but I play Empire - my '85 point bid for 2nd player' 😎 ).

If you want to run corvettes and frigates, my best suggestion would be to pick up a bunch of turbo laser reroute circuits, as they were a promo card a long time ago and so they often float around. Put TRC on everything and you take out the worst of the dice luck and give yourself a chance to actually win a game outside of the dice Gods smiling on you for 2 hours straight (something that never happens).

...however all that said, this definitely IS good advice. TRC90s are legit. Infuriatingly annoying, actually. And they have a lot of objectives they pair VERY well with.

13 hours ago, CMDR Kastor said:

Out of interest, what's the viability of running naked ships in this game? if I was to run something like

CR90 Corvette A (44)
= 44 Points
CR90 Corvette A (44)
= 44 Points
Nebulon-B Support Refit (51)
= 51 Points
Nebulon-B Support Refit (51)
• Mon Mothma (30)
= 81 Points
Pelta Command Ship (60)
• Shields to Maximum! (6)
= 66 Points
Squadrons:
• A-wing Squadron (11)
= 11 Points
Total Points: 297

Would I be asking to get my butt handed to me or can something ship heavy like that work?

I know we are starting to move into fleet build territory rather than general discussion territory but it's still relevant to the subject I guess.

As far as naked goes a lot people out here have had a lot of success with this list or list akin to it out here:

Pelta Assault Ship (56)
• Skilled First Officer (1)
• Intensify Firepower! (6)
• External Racks (3)
= 66 Points

CR90 Corvette A (44)
• Mon Mothma (30)
• Jaina's Light (2)
= 76 Points

CR90 Corvette A (44)
• Ray Antilles (7)
• Tantive IV (3)
= 54 Points

CR90 Corvette A (44)
= 44 Points

CR90 Corvette A (44)
= 44 Points

CR90 Corvette A (44)
= 44 Points

CR90 Corvette A (44)
= 44 Points

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)
• Slicer Tools (7)
• Quantum Storm (1)
= 26 Points

Total Points: 398

now not everything is naked, but the petla gives you the dice modding your fleet needs and acts as a finisher when needed, Tantive supports the peta in getting it the tokens it needs, Jainas light lets Mothma hide and still get shots off, slicer tools keeps carriers in check, and Mon Mothma help mitigate some squadron damage as well as ship damage.

Nebs biggest weakspot also happens to be their largest arc, and that arc has the same firepower as a cr-90A so you can’t even punish someone in that arc.

Because of it’s side arc being so large, I wouldn’t bring more than 1 neb.

The pelta feels better to me than the neb, but I wouldn’t run more than 1 pelta.

all the fleet commands except shields to maximum(stm) are good, stm gives 1 shield to everything, but anyone who has played a few tabletop games knows to focus fire.

- I did have some luck with shields to maximum in a fleet with hammerheads running task force Antilles title(it lets one hammerhead take damage for another hammerhead) with that title i forced damage to be spread among my hammerheads making them fairly durable for their cost, and getting much more value out of stm.

15 minutes ago, DakkaDakka12 said:

all the fleet commands except shields to maximum(stm) are good, stm gives 1 shield to everything, but anyone who has played a few tabletop games knows to focus fire.

- I did have some luck with shields to maximum in a fleet with hammerheads running task force Antilles title(it lets one hammerhead take damage for another hammerhead) with that title i forced damage to be spread among my hammerheads making them fairly durable for their cost, and getting much more value out of stm.

It also synergizes quite well with Projection Experts; it allows the Pelta to perfectly restore the shields it gives away and grants the healed ship a third shield too (*cough*Ackbar MC80*cough*.)

I think you'll find with running naked CR90 is that you are fighting at a handicap. This is because TRC is such a great upgrade on then, an auto-include 95% of the time. Having Intensify Firepower! does pose a viable alternative as you would save bulk points.

Nebs are pretty ordinary which is why you never see them, besides Yavaris. AST just look great with Neb and with either STM or maybe Redemption to get those shields up quick, or Garm to spam Eng from turn 1.

7 hours ago, xanderf said:

Bah, you are playing a different game than I am.

What determines 'how you do' is going to be how well you deploy your list and what objectives you play. Even a very bad list, with very poor dice control and mediocre rolling, can easily steamroll an opponent that you forced to take a bad objective...

So if I take a bad list with good objectives, get given second player, AND my opponent picks the objective out of the three that allows me steamroll them it is all ok? Lol

I'm giving you a trolly time of course, you aren't wrong that there is much more to a fleet than just its components. Deployment and objectives are HUGE. But to say they trump solid fleet building is a bit of a stretch. Objectives can't help much if you get tabled turn 4.

It's also super not fun to run a "there's a reason why you dont see fleets like this at regionals" kinda fleet and then curb stomped by an experienced list builder because you truly feel like you never stood a chance. So I want to just be in good faith before I tell someone that they can run whatever they want and be successful, because while I certainly will never discourage experimentation, but imo if you are on the newer end there is real value in learning the game using fleets that are tried and true first so you can win or lose based on your decisions on the board rather than the ones you make upgrading a cr90.

Hearing a lot of get this particular card from this expansion to make your underperforming ship halfway viable.

Seems like a minimum change rebalance list would go a long way to making casual games between players with small collections more fun, hopefully people remeber why 2.0 xwing happened before they shoot down the idea.

Not saying Armada is anywhere near as bad as xwing 1 was, it's not.

On a much more positive note where I get to rub it in some faces a little.
Ran this version of the list
CR90 Corvette A (44) • Ray Antilles (7) • Tantive IV (3) = 54 Points

CR90 Corvette B (39) = 39 Points

Nebulon-B Support Refit (51) • Dual Turbolaser Turrets (5) • Salvation (7) = 63 Points

Nebulon-B Support Refit (51) • Mon Mothma (30) = 81 Points

Pelta Assault Ship (56) • Shields to Maximum! (6) = 62 Points

Squadrons: = 0 Points

Total Points: 299

And it did very well. That said my opponent had an awful list in the opposite direction. Overloading an ISD and a Raider with too many upgrades and taking Ties+Boba for the rest.

I certainly didn't feel like anything failed to pull it's weight. The Pelta and CR-B both died but that was an intentional risk. Everything else took no hull damage. Salvation did work but so did the generic. That said I wish salvation was slightly more expensive and Nebs themselves where slightly cheaper, taking multiple Nebs feels like bad value after the first in list building, even if they do well in play. Regardless, neb phalanx seems functional, though I'm sure there are many better Red-dice per point builds (a certain Admiral comes to mind).