At first I was against the idea, as I didn’t see Scum as a military. Legion is a military action game after all and Scum are generally known for their bounty hunting or very small skirmishes. I guess recently I’ve had a change of heart. Having a Scum military on the board may be quite a bit of fun, with cobbled together armour and their dirty tricks. Maybe they wouldn’t field much of an army, but their dirty tricks are extremely deadly? The question becomes, is their a source from Cannon or even the EU? I’ll give you three sources (that I can think of - there are probably more).

The first source is RoTJ, in it Lando is given the rank of general because of a “little maneuver” (as he calls it) that he did at the battle of Taanab (look it up). It’s only a couple of lines in the movie, but the back story is that Lando, leading the Taanab Defense Fleet, defeated a Pirate Fleet orbiting the planet of Taanab. First there was a Pirate Fleet which leads one to believe there were enough pirates to take the planet (one set of military) and second, the civilian authorities were able to muster a fleet of their own, meaning their are civilian militias and militaries that can be added to Legion.

For my second source, I’d actually direct you to FFG’s X-Wing. I know, I know, it’s just a game, but they were the ones who created the Raider and now it’s Cannon. On some of the generic Scum pilot cards in X-Wing they describe large scale pirate or syndicate battles, and again, it’s not hard to think, if they can muster a Fleet on either side their must have been enough to take, if not raid settlements.

For my third source of Scum military, I would cite the CW animated show, in which there are two separate examples of Scum military that also did ground campaigns. The first of those two CW examples would be Hondo Ohnaka, who had a sizable fleet of pirates. The second of such examples was of course Darth Maul himself, who lead a large crime syndicate and took over Hutt territories with the might of that syndicate.

Undoubtedly there are more examples, but this was just off the top of my head. Scum as a Legion faction would be unorthodox to be sure, and many of the troops and even commanders wouldn’t have high courage, but it would add a very distinct Star Wars flavour to the game. Existing Scum factioned Units that have already been included in existing factions could easily have more than one faction, since what’s more Star Wars than that? What do you think? Should Scum be added as a fifth faction? Do you think there’s enough there to mine for years to come, and are there more examples of large scale military action in Star Wars?

I think that just like armada there isn't enough organised stuff for an entire faction.

However mercenary units is something i expect.

I just want a squad of very ordinarily statted troops, inspired by the cantina and Jabba's palace. That my armies can hire. Personally I doubt I'd collect a whole faction's worth of them.

800 points apiece of Jawas, Tusken Raiders, or Ewoks is another subject.

How about something like the downed at-st where you'd have some extra neutral units (jawas, ewoks, etc) that you could control after securing the first objective? So in the first act you could sacrifice few units to get them on your side for act 2.

I think, and I've said it before, FFG could make boxed sets - a fully realized 800 point army, with all of the tokens and unit cards needed for an 800 point army. Only for factions that don't quite fit the main faction Nightsisters, the Ohnaka gang, etc. The downside is you won't get any new units for them, but you can play them.

Add in some scenarios, similar to the downed AT-ST, and I think people will buy them.

No interest for me for Scum. They've always been the least interesting part of the franchise in my opinion, and usually something that drags down whatever they're in. They can make 'em, but I won't buy 'em.

If they do want to make scum units, I'd hope they'd wait until the CW factions have been out for a year to a year and a half, at least, and allow them to catch up with the GCW factions. Be incredibly annoying if in 6-8 months, while CW is struggling to get a release every other month (at the current rate of announcement) and they introduce something like Scum to the game. Unless they're a generic, mercenary corps or SF slot that are cross-faction, it would really hurt the game.

neutral boosters for Scum maybe? Be great for a little variety to add some Gamorreans to battle Wookies. Not sure a whole faction makes sense? Are the Hutts or Crimson Dawn going to war with the Empire? Highly unlikely? Thats not how the underworld works.

6 hours ago, JediPartisan said:

Having a Scum military on the board may be quite a bit of fun, with cobbled together armour and their dirty tricks. Maybe they wouldn’t field much of an army, but their dirty tricks are extremely deadly?

This is the only thing that I'm interested in. Is it a fun addition to the game that gives a different twist on army building/style/gameplay that isn't already present in the other factions (which are somewhat lackluster to this point)

The primary concern FFG should be interested in, is selling models, which the Mercenary/Scum faction would do.

As far as canon, There were plenty of pirate armies - no matter what the description of the game, this is a skirmish game. People are talking about 10-12 activations including sniper teams, Generals and Operatives. That's nothing. Real armies have Divisions, not squads, thousands of troops, not 50. There's 5x more pirates on a 16th century sailing vessel than the amount of plastic toys that we bring to our table side. Clone Wars, Comics, RoTJ, new Han and Rogue One movie all had criminal factions that could have fielded enough troops to fit on a Legion table.

1 hour ago, docForsaken said:

neutral boosters for Scum maybe? Be great for a little variety to add some Gamorreans to battle Wookies. Not sure a whole faction makes sense? Are the Hutts or Crimson Dawn going to war with the Empire? Highly unlikely? Thats not how the underworld works.

But characters Like Hondo and his gang HAVE attacked republic troops.. and he had a battle tank.. oh how he misses it..

6 hours ago, jocke01 said:

I think that just like armada there isn't enough organised stuff for an entire faction.

However mercenary units is something i expect.

1 hour ago, docForsaken said:

neutral boosters for Scum maybe? Be great for a little variety to add some Gamorreans to battle Wookies. Not sure a whole faction makes sense? Are the Hutts or Crimson Dawn going to war with the Empire? Highly unlikely? Thats not how the underworld works.

Legion isn't representing an entire war, or really anything that requires extensive "organization" such as buying and maintaining (a secret illegal) warfleet. Battles in Legion are between two reinforced platoons, a size force criminal elements are shown being able to field in both the films (Jabba) and other canon sources (Eleodie Maracavanya's pirate fleet [Edit: come to think of it, with the release of the SSD the fleet could be added to Armada as alternate deployment cards for pre-existing ships. I've also heard that one of the main reasons "scum and villany" aren't being released for Armada is FFG is having a hard time coming up with a unique "feel" for the faction rather than just "mishmash of ships from other factions], Hondo's weequay pirates, Maul's Shadow Collective).

Each of the current objectives can totally work flavour wise as well.

Breakthrough: The criminals are being raided by an opposing force, trying to have more of their forces escape the cordon than gain entry to the safehouse (which is beyond their deployment zone).

Intercept the Transmissions: The criminals are trying to listen into secure communications, or establish a tap which will allow them to piggyback illegal interstellar communications.

Key Positions: The criminals are trying to secure locations of buried/hidden caches of illegal goods so they can be moved before the Rebels/Empire/CIS/GAR claim the goods for destruction/use.

Recover the supplies: The criminals and other faction are fighting over supplies that were scattered around an area in a shuttle crash.

Sabotage the Moisture Vaporators: The criminals are trying to make the opponent's base in the area untenable, forcing them to move. OR the criminals are trying to keep their base supplied with water while the opponent is trying to destroy the hidden criminal base's water supply.

All of these are important enough for a crime family/pirate band to commit a fair number of resources (a gang leader, a bounty hunter, 30-40 thugs of various description, maybe a captured/stolen/blackmarket/heavily modified vehicle or two) to battle.

1 hour ago, docForsaken said:

neutral boosters for Scum maybe? Be great for a little variety to add some Gamorreans to battle Wookies. Not sure a whole faction makes sense? Are the Hutts or Crimson Dawn going to war with the Empire? Highly unlikely? Thats not how the underworld works.

it's not about them going to war against the Empire. think about it more in terms of Solo instead of an actual war. Would the Hutts or Crimson Dawn steal from the Empire? Absolutely. Sabotage their equipment? Absolutely. Smuggle goods through a blockade? Sure thing. Defend their territories from an Imperial raid? You bet.

4 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Legion isn't representing an entire war, or really anything that requires extensive "organization" such as buying and maintaining (a secret illegal) warfleet. Battles in Legion are between two reinforced platoons, a size force criminal elements are shown being able to field in both the films (Jabba) and other canon sources (Eleodie Maracavanya's pirate fleet, Hondo's weequay pirates, Maul's Shadow Collective).

Each of the current objectives can totally work flavour wise as well.

Breakthrough: The criminals are being raided by an opposing force, trying to have more of their forces escape the cordon than gain entry to the safehouse (which is beyond their deployment zone).

Intercept the Transmissions: The criminals are trying to listen into secure communications, or establish a tap which will allow them to piggyback illegal interstellar communications.

Key Positions: The criminals are trying to secure locations of buried/hidden caches of illegal goods so they can be moved before the Rebels/Empire/CIS/GAR claim the goods for destruction/use.

Recover the supplies: The criminals and other faction are fighting over supplies that were scattered around an area in a shuttle crash.

Sabotage the Moisture Vaporators: The criminals are trying to make the opponent's base in the area untenable, forcing them to move. OR the criminals are trying to keep their base supplied with water while the opponent is trying to destroy the hidden criminal base's water supply.

All of these are important enough for a crime family/pirate band to commit a fair number of resources (a gang leader, a bounty hunter, 30-40 thugs of various description, maybe a captured/stolen/blackmarket/heavily modified vehicle or two) to battle.

This! Agree 100% I really don't get the argument that scum aren't an army. Have you seen how many models you bring to a typical battle? it's not that many!

8 minutes ago, Lukez said:

This! Agree 100% I really don't get the argument that scum aren't an army. Have you seen how many models you bring to a typical battle? it's not that many!

I think it comes from the use of the term "Army" for your force where we are realistically dealing with platoons. Dealing with Army sized units Scum would get absolutely wiped out, but so would the Rebels (as seen at Hoth).

I would rather see scum integrated into the game as mercenaries. Either they get a unit card for each eligible faction, or you list the factions eligible to take that unit. This would be only for units who thematically fit with multiple factions. My best example would be Cad Bane. He worked with the CIS in the clone wars, but after order 66 he did freelance work with the empire. Hondo Onaka worked with the highest bidder be it rebels, empire, CIS or republic. Nym worked with the republic against the trade federation and then kind of for the rebellion.

For Armada I really do not want to see a Scum faction - doesn't make thematic sense for a Organization to have a battle fleet comparable to the Jedi-hadist collection of terrorist Rebels or Imperial Navy. Legion we have seen scum or individual armies in Movies and shows. I would say Jabba would have enough people to field a SW Legion combat unit. Could include new Objectives of repelling the invaders.

Don't forget that many galaxy-spanning crimnal organisations control entire planets, not to speak of the Hutt's which call a sizeable sector poltical independent from the Republic/Empire their home.

I also don't understand why people are so obsessed with only allowing small niche armys. Not only did crimnal organinsations work together (like in the case of the Shadow Collective) but most units are mercenaries and hired goons anyway which fight for whichever criminal can pay them.

2 minutes ago, Decarior said:

Don't forget that many galaxy-spanning crimnal organisations control entire planets, not to speak of the Hutt's which call a sizeable sector poltical independent from the Republic/Empire their home.

I also don't understand why people are so obsessed with only allowing small niche armys. Not only did crimnal organinsations work together (like in the case of the Shadow Collective) but most units are mercenaries and hired goons anyway which fight for whichever criminal can pay them.

Probably because we don't really see (many) pirates and such openly attacking the Republic - Hondo’s gang did it behind his back, and we don't see rebels hiring mercenaries.

The Shadow Collective was a bid for power by Maul and the Deathwatch that was more of a personal goal that that of an army.

Legion is a game about open warfare, and while some concessions are made with rebels, criminals don't really fit the scope if the game. Open warfare is not good for business.

1 minute ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

Probably because we don't really see (many) pirates and such openly attacking the Republic - Hondo’s gang did it behind his back, and we don't see rebels hiring mercenaries.

The Shadow Collective was a bid for power by Maul and the Deathwatch that was more of a personal goal that that of an army.

Legion is a game about open warfare, and while some concessions are made with rebels, criminals don't really fit the scope if the game. Open warfare is not good for business.

Legion doesn't really represent "open warfare" though, just individual battles. What is the basis for your statement? If criminals are openly attacking government ships (X-wing), how is attacking the government planetside significantly different?

Allowing your criminal enterprise to be shut down by the government/idealistic freedom fighters/other criminals isn't good for business either.

1 hour ago, Lukez said:

This! Agree 100% I really don't get the argument that scum aren't an army. Have you seen how many models you bring to a typical battle? it's not that many!

Well, I mean, one of our more outspoken members was incredulous that you could ever see up to 36 shoretroopers in the same place.
Even though you see more than that in Rogue One.....

I'd be all for a scum themed army. The hutts and black sun especially would have no problem fielding the "skirmish" sized force that we see in a typical 800 point game of legion.

However, I would change some of the design from IA. I think that instead of just literally being "Scum: The army where tusken raiders, wampas and boba fett have an adventure" (looking at you IA), I would instead make it specifically a "Hutt" or "Black Sun" or "Cartels" army or something of that sort. I'd make the set of units they would have access to cohesive and make sense just for that faction. Then stuff like Tusken Raiders, or Wampas, or Nexus or whatever would probably be neutral-hostile creatures on the board and then other "bounty hunter" types of units could be hire-able mercenaries. That's the approach I would take anyway.

48 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Legion doesn't really represent "open warfare" though, just individual battles. What is the basis for your statement? If criminals are openly attacking government ships (X-wing), how is attacking the government planetside significantly different?

Space ships while traveling in space can continue traveling in space and leave the area, attacking planet side, especially to defend or protect the planet, leaves them on the planet and we see how that went for Saw.

36 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Legion doesn't really represent "open warfare" though, just individual battles. What is the basis for your statement? If criminals are openly attacking government ships (X-wing), how is attacking the government planetside significantly different?

Allowing your criminal enterprise to be shut down by the government/idealistic freedom fighters/other criminals isn't good for business either.

X-wing is nothing but a constant bid for control over the same 6 asteroids. 😜

My point is when do we see all these scum doing this? We don't. The game of Legion, at least to me, is about the warring factions. Most of the criminal syndicates and pirates don't work together, let alone work with the Factions as presented. The bounty hunters are there because Vader can break the rules with impunity - Piett likely represents the overall mentality “we don't need that scum”.

Not Every game needs to have playable scum. It is like playing Outer Rim and wanting to play Palpatine.

Scum also don't have a lot of units, sure Hondo had his battle tank, and again, how he misses it, but how many other scum tanks do we see in canon? While we have seen ships, and some personnel we don't see many Heavy units, or support, and so on.

There is also the fact that most scum don't work well together.. Mafia and bikers, etc vie for power constantly and don't usually get along. In Star Wars it was because a bigger threat - Maul and Savage Oppress were browbeating them into submission. Had the Republic attacked. I suspect that alliance would crumble. Look how well it did agains one Jedi.

Visually they ARE fun, but a full on scum faction has a lot of problems. The lack of overall unit variety being one. Swoop bike support and corps units only I guess?

3 minutes ago, Cusm said:

Space ships while traveling in space can continue traveling in space and leave the area, attacking planet side, especially to defend or protect the planet, leaves them on the planet and we see how that went for Saw.

Because people can't leave a planet in a ship? We see the Rebel alliance flee the Hoth base despite an Imperial blockade. Saw operated for 17 years against the Empire on various planets, only dying due to deciding not to try to escape from the destruction caused by a shot by the Death Star. If you can't leave, you disappear into the native populace. Criminals wouldn't (necessarily) care about reprisals on civilians. If attacking planetside didn't work, then the rebellion would have been crushed incredibly quickly.

Just now, That Blasted Samophlange said:

X-wing is nothing but a constant bid for control over the same 6 asteroids. 😜

My point is when do we see all these scum doing this? We don't. The game of Legion, at least to me, is about the warring factions. Most of the criminal syndicates and pirates don't work together, let alone work with the Factions as presented. The bounty hunters are there because Vader can break the rules with impunity - Piett likely represents the overall mentality “we don't need that scum”.

Not Every game needs to have playable scum. It is like playing Outer Rim and wanting to play Palpatine.

Scum also don't have a lot of units, sure Hondo had his battle tank, and again, how he misses it, but how many other scum tanks do we see in canon? While we have seen ships, and some personnel we don't see many Heavy units, or support, and so on.

There is also the fact that most scum don't work well together.. Mafia and bikers, etc vie for power constantly and don't usually get along. In Star Wars it was because a bigger threat - Maul and Savage Oppress were browbeating them into submission. Had the Republic attacked. I suspect that alliance would crumble. Look how well it did agains one Jedi.

Visually they ARE fun, but a full on scum faction has a lot of problems. The lack of overall unit variety being one. Swoop bike support and corps units only I guess?

And Legion is nothing but constant fights held on a battlefield smaller than a football field. 😛

If Legion can have Palpatine walking around shooting lighting out of his hands at people, there's space for Hondo to be leading a band of weequay pirates against anybody. Where in canon do we see the AT-RT being used by Rebels? A single mobile game, so that's as much credence for a criminal tank, if not more. How often in canon do we see any of the Rebel infantry units fighting alongside each other? The only Imperial ones we see fighting on the same battlefield are the Shoretroopers, Stormtroopers, and Deathtroopers. I don't recall seeing the Imperial Guards wading into battle alongside generic Imperial officer #7, yet Legion completely allows this.

You can have Corps units of thugs, weequay pirates, or enforcer droids, Special Forces Gamorillian guards, generic bounty hunters/mercenaries, or Mandalorian jump troops, tame Rancor as a Heavy in addition to the tank, swoop bike Support, and probably more stuff I'm missing from comics/video games/etc. Canonically, Han Solo lead a unit of Pathfinders on Endor, yet the box we have to represent those troops is labeled as "Commandos" with different stats than those representing the Pathfinders on Scarif (who apparently where also accompanied by some Commandos). So... we'll see.

I'm not trying to say FFG HAS to release scum, just that a criminal/scum faction would work for Legion. I'd also rather see them as a separate faction than some completely neutral unit that can be taken by any faction (with the sole exception of Hondo).

My other concern is the balance for the game. If the scum becomes a catch-all for everything that doesn't fit, and you can mix and match then I can see them becoming the defacto faction. Much of this occurred in x-wing 1.0.

If scum must become a faction, I'd rather see it as a bunch of separate sub-factions.

I just don't see a need for everything in star wars to be playable. Why can't we just have a game with the military factions battling?

I agree Scum shouldn't just be a catchall for everything not part of the other factions. I would prefer to see separate factions of Scum, like the Hutts being their own faction as well. Someone mentioned that the Scum could be separate subfactions with say a corp unit be used by all. That would work as well.

As for heavy the Hutts don't need to have a Tank, the Sand skiff from Return of the Jedi would work as well as the Rancor. Swoops could be a Support slot and a crew mounted Heavy blaster like the one that was mounted on the rail of Jabas Sail barge.

Also basically the whole Solo movie and the first part of Return of the Jedi are dealing with Scum stealing from or fighting off each other/the Imperials/ the Rebels.