so, his card

From the rules reference:

Some abilities reference a ship’s Revealed maneUveR outside of that ship’s activation. A ship’s revealed maneuver is the maneuver selected on its dial, which remains faceup next to that ship’s ship card until the next Planning Phase.
◊ If a ship’s dial is not revealed, or it was not assigned a dial that round, that ship does not have a revealed maneuver.

OK, so ionized ships

During the Planning Phase an ionized ship is not assigned a dial.

So Ric does not get to use his pilot ability on ionized ships? What’s the difference between an ionized ship that would negate Rics ability and a ship that moves slower than Ric? would think it wouldn’t make a difference.

An ionized ship has no revealed dial, ric has nothing to check, so his ability does not fire.

What makes an ionized ship so special that Rics ability doesn’t trigger? The ship is ionized and has limited movement so wouldn’t it make it easier for Ric to attack an ionized ship or defend against an ionized ship?

12 minutes ago, pakirby said:

What makes an ionized ship so special that Rics ability doesn’t trigger? The ship is ionized and has limited movement so wouldn’t it make it easier for Ric to attack an ionized ship or defend against an ionized ship?

Page 12 of the Rules Ref under Ion, first bullet point:

1. The ship skips its Reveal Dial step.

Actually, sounds to me like they are checking the speed of Rics revealed maneuver against the speed of the other ship. It doesn’t mention the revealed maneuver of the other ship, only the speed of the other ship.

to make it clear

While you defend or perform a primary attack, if the speed of your revealed maneuver is higher than the enemy ship's, roll 1 additional die.

Should be either

While you defend or perform a primary attack, if the speed of your revealed maneuver is higher than the enemy ship's revealed maneuver, roll 1 additional die. If the ship has no revealed maneuver nothing happens.

Or

While you defend or perform a primary attack, if the speed of your revealed maneuver is higher than the enemy ship's speed, roll 1 additional die.

2 minutes ago, pakirby said:

Actually, sounds to me like they are checking the speed of Rics revealed maneuver against the speed of the other ship. It doesn’t mention the revealed maneuver of the other ship, only the speed of the other ship.

to make it clear

While you defend or perform a primary attack, if the speed of your revealed maneuver is higher than the enemy ship's, roll 1 additional die.

Should be either

While you defend or perform a primary attack, if the speed of your revealed maneuver is higher than the enemy ship's revealed maneuver, roll 1 additional die. If the ship has no revealed maneuver nothing happens.

Or

While you defend or perform a primary attack, if the speed of your revealed maneuver is higher than the enemy ship's speed, roll 1 additional die.

🤨

"While you defend or perform a primary attack, if the speed of your revealed maneuver is higher than the enemy ship's, roll 1 additional die." says the exact same thing as "While you defend or perform a primary attack, if the speed of your revealed maneuver is higher than the enemy ship's revealed maneuver , roll 1 additional die." since the only thing that "higher than the enemy ship's" can reference with in that check is "speed of your revealed maneuver" meaning that Olie checks the revealed maneuver of the enemy ship when he compares for his ability...

What is with so many people trying to twist the rules into contradictory pretzels for ultra easy extra red dice right now?

@Hiemfire , they're trying to apply some logic and reasoning to the game rules rather than just accepting them. I go through this with one friend who hasn't found a game that didn't require "tweaking" or a house rule of some sort.

32 minutes ago, pakirby said:

Actually, sounds to me like they are checking the speed of Rics revealed maneuver against the speed of the other ship. It doesn’t mention the revealed maneuver of the other ship, only the speed of the other ship.

to make it clear

While you defend or perform a primary attack, if the speed of your revealed maneuver is higher than the enemy ship's, roll 1 additional die.

Should be either

While you defend or perform a primary attack, if the speed of your revealed maneuver is higher than the enemy ship's revealed maneuver, roll 1 additional die. If the ship has no revealed maneuver nothing happens.

Or

While you defend or perform a primary attack, if the speed of your revealed maneuver is higher than the enemy ship's speed, roll 1 additional die.

Ships don't have a speed.

54 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

@Hiemfire , they're trying to apply some logic and reasoning to the game rules rather than just accepting them. I go through this with one friend who hasn't found a game that didn't require "tweaking" or a house rule of some sort.

I mean, it's not "twisted logic" it's more like "common sense."

(Well, to some extent. At some point, arguing the point is just spitting into the wind...)

The "basic idea" of Ric is that if he goes faster, he gets an extra die. However, like a lot of other "basic ideas" that isn't how the card actually works . @thespaceinvader is completely correct that by the rules, Ric Olie doesn't work against an Ionized ship. There's a lot of strange hiccups around Revealed Maneuvers rules, IMHO; not just Ric, but a lot of other effects.

Is that silly? Personally, I think it's VERY silly that Ric doesn't work against an Ionized ship. But thems the rules.

Yeah, I spent a lot of time on Ric/Ion lists until I realised it doesn't work.

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

I mean, it's not "twisted logic" it's more like "common sense."

(Well, to some extent. At some point, arguing the point is just spitting into the wind...)

The "basic idea" of Ric is that if he goes faster, he gets an extra die. However, like a lot of other "basic ideas" that isn't how the card actually works . @thespaceinvader is completely correct that by the rules, Ric Olie doesn't work against an Ionized ship. There's a lot of strange hiccups around Revealed Maneuvers rules, IMHO; not just Ric, but a lot of other effects.

Is that silly? Personally, I think it's VERY silly that Ric doesn't work against an Ionized ship. But thems the rules.

DRK droids as well. They don’t have an assigned dial, they are “relocated”

What's even more silly is that the droid fighters sitting on the rocks can "outmanoeuvre" Ric by revealing 4 or 5 straight while still sitting completely still on their rock...

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

I mean, it's not "twisted logic" it's more like "common sense."

(Well, to some extent. At some point, arguing the point is just spitting into the wind...)

The "basic idea" of Ric is that if he goes faster, he gets an extra die. However, like a lot of other "basic ideas" that isn't how the card actually works . @thespaceinvader is completely correct that by the rules, Ric Olie doesn't work against an Ionized ship. There's a lot of strange hiccups around Revealed Maneuvers rules, IMHO; not just Ric, but a lot of other effects.

Is that silly? Personally, I think it's VERY silly that Ric doesn't work against an Ionized ship. But thems the rules.

Actually he does work against ionized ships. But only if they ionized ship has already revealed a dial. So an enemy ship reveals a 1 Bank maneuver, moves then gets ionized from an attack by another ship. Ric moved 3 Bank, fires on the ionized ship. Since the enemy ship revealed its maneuver dial, Ric’s ability triggers. And Ric gets an extra die.

The next round during the planning phase the ionized ship does not get assigned a dial and the ship performs an ion maneuver. Ric does a 2 Turn. Ric attacks the ionized ship but his pilot ability doesn’t trigger because the ionized ship wasn’t assigned a dial that they could reveal.

5 minutes ago, Ryfterek said:

What's even more silly is that the droid fighters sitting on the rocks can "outmanoeuvre" Ric by revealing 4 or 5 straight while still sitting completely still on their rock...

Nope. They still reveal their dial, and if they don't set it to a 5, they can't outmanoeuvre him.

For instance, if they want to turn, the maximum revealed speed is 3.

And honestly, it doesn't feel that silly to me. THey just walked round onto the opposite side of the rock from him or whatever.

Just now, pakirby said:

Actually he does work against ionized ships. But only if they ionized ship has already revealed a dial. So an enemy ship reveals a 1 Bank maneuver, moves then gets ionized from an attack by another ship. Ric moved 3 Bank, fires on the ionized ship. Since the enemy ship revealed its maneuver dial, Ric’s ability triggers. And Ric gets an extra die.

The next round during the planning phase the ionized ship does not get assigned a dial and the ship performs an ion maneuver. Ric does a 2 Turn. Ric attacks the ionized ship but his pilot ability doesn’t trigger because the ionized ship wasn’t assigned a dial that they could reveal.

Yeah, that's just picking hairs and ignoring the obvious intent of the point, which is 'against a ship which executed an ion manoeuvre that round'.

18 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Yeah, that's just picking hairs and ignoring the obvious intent of the point, which is 'against a ship which executed an ion manoeuvre that round'.

There’s no picking hairs here. My scenario I described is per the rules.

13 minutes ago, pakirby said:

There’s no picking hairs here. My scenario I described is per the rules.

I did not say otherwise.

The fact that a ship can be ionised after revealing its dial is entirely irrelevant to, and distracting from, the discussion of what happens when something which cares about a ship's revealed dial, encounters a ship with no dial revealed .

The fact that you are correct, is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

3 hours ago, pakirby said:

Actually, sounds to me like they are checking the speed of Rics revealed maneuver against the speed of the other ship. It doesn’t mention the revealed maneuver of the other ship, only the speed of the other ship.

25 minutes ago, pakirby said:

Actually he does work against ionized ships. But only if they ionized ship has already revealed a dial. So an enemy ship reveals a 1 Bank maneuver, moves then gets ionized from an attack by another ship. Ric moved 3 Bank, fires on the ionized ship. Since the enemy ship revealed its maneuver dial, Ric’s ability triggers. And Ric gets an extra die.

The next round during the planning phase the ionized ship does not get assigned a dial and the ship performs an ion maneuver. Ric does a 2 Turn. Ric attacks the ionized ship but his pilot ability doesn’t trigger because the ionized ship wasn’t assigned a dial that they could reveal. 

When someone fails to realize they just did a 180 on them self and agreed with the opposition... I think this discussion is done, taking it any farther would be a Daffey v Bugs level of pointless.

This is literally covered in the rules pamphlet that comes with the N-1:

"If a ship was not assigned a dial during the Planning Phase (because it was ionized, for example), it does not have a revealed maneuver."

54 minutes ago, pakirby said:

Actually he does work against ionized ships. But only if they ionized ship has already revealed a dial. So an enemy ship reveals a 1 Bank maneuver, moves then gets ionized from an attack by another ship. Ric moved 3 Bank, fires on the ionized ship. Since the enemy ship revealed its maneuver dial, Ric’s ability triggers. And Ric gets an extra die.

The next round during the planning phase the ionized ship does not get assigned a dial and the ship performs an ion maneuver. Ric does a 2 Turn. Ric attacks the ionized ship but his pilot ability doesn’t trigger because the ionized ship wasn’t assigned a dial that they could reveal.

56 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Yeah, that's just picking hairs and ignoring the obvious intent of the point, which is 'against a ship which executed an ion manoeuvre that round'.

Seriously.

On 7/22/2019 at 5:35 PM, Hiemfire said:

taking it any farther would be a Daffey v Bugs level of pointless.

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