If i have a proximity mine or other device on the sith infiltrator, and I'm cloaked. Can I drop my device and then decloak? The rules state i can't drop after decloaking. But i would like further information.

Actually, the rules state...

"Each ship cannot drop or launch a device during the same phase that it decloaked."

So you can't do both during the system phase.

6 minutes ago, shaunmerritt said:

Actually, the rules state...

"Each ship cannot drop or launch a device during the same phase that it decloaked."

So you can't do both during the system phase.

You can if you drop/launch the device first, then decloak since you haven't decloaked yet when you're doing so.

3 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

You can if you drop/launch the device first, then decloak since you haven't decloaked yet when you're doing so.

Normally I would agree, but in this case, the order does not matter... you can't do both in the same phase. If you decloak then drop a bomb then you have " drop or launch a device during the same phase that it decloaked ," which is against the rules.

22 minutes ago, shaunmerritt said:

Actually, the rules state...

"Each ship cannot drop or launch a device during the same phase that it decloaked."

So you can't do both during the system phase.

If you’ve decloaked you can’t drop a device, but if you’ve dropped a device you can still decloak; its all a matter of timing.

2 minutes ago, Innese said:

If you’ve decloaked you can’t drop a device, but if you’ve dropped a device you can still decloak; its all a matter of timing.

I guess, but I still kinda of disagree. Maybe its just the way FFG wrote it that is throwing me for a loop.

3 minutes ago, shaunmerritt said:

I guess, but I still kinda of disagree. Maybe its just the way FFG wrote it that is throwing me for a loop.

Its like chemistry. Its okay to pour A into B but never pour B into A.

Just now, Innese said:

Its like chemistry. Its okay to pour A into B but never pour B into A.

Good reply. I guess the intent is to keep someone from De-cloacking in front of a ship and dropping a bomb on them.

Yeah it seems like whats missing to make it super clear is the same rule but the opposite way round in each section.

"Each ship cannot drop or launch a device during the same phase that it decloaked"

And then in the other section:

"Each ship cannot decloak in the same phase that it dropped or launched a device"

That would tidy it up.

Lacking the opposite rule (can't decloak after deploying a device), the intention (as I see it) seems to be, to limit the opportunities that ships have for repositioning before dropping/launching. This makes bomb/mine placement much more predictable, since you know the ship has to do so from its starting position. If the ship could reposition first, it would make bombers far more frightening. There isn't the same massive tactical advantage if a ship repositions after the bomb is dropped... from a narrative standpoint, it makes excellent sense to get the heck away from that explosive device you've just armed and ejected.

There are ways around it, of course... Moff Jerjerrod can boost a ship before it drops a device, and the astromech Genius lets you bomb after your move.

32 minutes ago, InterceptorMad said:

Yeah it seems like whats missing to make it super clear is the same rule but the opposite way round in each section.

"Each ship cannot drop or launch a device during the same phase that it decloaked"

And then in the other section:

"Each ship cannot decloak in the same phase that it dropped or launched a device"

That would tidy it up.

That wouldn't make it more clear. It would change what it says.

41 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

That wouldn't make it more clear. It would change what it says.

No I mean you have the one saying you can't decloak after bombing in the decloak rule section. AND you have the one saying you can't bomb after a decloak in the device rule section.

Then you cover it being both ways. Doesn't matter what you do first, you are stopped from doing the other one.

16 minutes ago, InterceptorMad said:

No I mean you have the one saying you can't decloak after bombing in the decloak rule section. AND you have the one saying you can't bomb after a decloak in the device rule section.

Then you cover it being both ways. Doesn't matter what you do first, you are stopped from doing the other one.

🤨 That would eliminate a perfectly legal sequence. Currently dropping or launching a device in the System Phase does not prevent the dropping/launching ship from decloaking after they do. Decloaking does prevent dropping or launching devices in the System Phase after the decloak, which I suspect is so that Firesprays, Scum HWKS, Quad Jumpers, Scum Aggressors and Scum Y-Wings (all 5 can take both cloaking devices and bombs or mines) cannot decloak and then drop/launch devices (you can add in Scimitar Sith Infiltrators now, but the rule was there before they showed up). If they could a cloaked device carrier's opponent would have to take into consideration 6 different possible drop/launch locations while they plan their dials. Then there is the avoided increased reach of CD Proxy Zuvio's forward drop of the mine and not having to worry about an Aggressor picking and choosing where to place a Protbomb with traj sim... Why the rule is the way it is clear.

The simple fix would be a timing chart for the system phase. whatever the order is to be determined... but you could do...

1) devices

2) de-cloaking

3) pilot abilities / upgrade cards

27 minutes ago, InterceptorMad said:

No I mean you have the one saying you can't decloak after bombing in the decloak rule section. AND you have the one saying you can't bomb after a decloak in the device rule section.

Then you cover it being both ways. Doesn't matter what you do first, you are stopped from doing the other one.

Precisely.

It is legal to decloak after bombing.

It is not legal to bomb after decloaking.

Making it not legal to decloak after bombing would be a change, not a clarification.

From my gaming group and other discussion on here, most people read it as/assumed it meant both anyway.

I was today years old when I found out the wording meant you could do it one way. I thought it was just forbidden both ways.

as i've mentioned previously in these forums, the ultimate combo to pull off doing this is with a quadjumper equipped with cad bane, a device such as a proximity mine or what have you and a cloaking device, flying in tandem with another quadjumper (preferably with cikatro vizago and a deadmans switch for extra shenanigans). you will need to have your quadjumper cloaked. preferably you will want to have your cloaking device traded with the other quadjumpers deadmans switch, so you can wreck extra havoc when you arrive and not risk loosing your cloak token before you go for it. you first drop a device, boost forwards with cad bane, then decloak forwards, you then go to activation, activate the other quadjumper first which flies up and tractor you forwards. you then activate the quadjumper in question, perform a three forwards maneuver, which is blue, loosing the stress from the red boost you took through cad banes ability - and can tractor an enemy ship after having moved a neat speed 10 forwards that round.

it would look like this, where the > is the ships position and the - are the templates being used.

> - > - - > - > - - - >

for reference:

and don't forget to add a device of your preferred flavour. i think i like the proximity mine best. but what ever kind of bang you like for your buck will work.

edit: also, just realized you can just run afterburners instead of a device and cad bane, which is probably a lot better, just not as scummy.

9 hours ago, meffo said:

as i've mentioned previously in these forums, the ultimate combo to pull off doing this is with a quadjumper equipped with cad bane, a device such as a proximity mine or what have you and a cloaking device, flying in tandem with another quadjumper (preferably with cikatro vizago and a deadmans switch for extra shenanigans). you will need to have your quadjumper cloaked. preferably you will want to have your cloaking device traded with the other quadjumpers deadmans switch, so you can wreck extra havoc when you arrive and not risk loosing your cloak token before you go for it. you first drop a device, boost forwards with cad bane, then decloak forwards, you then go to activation, activate the other quadjumper first which flies up and tractor you forwards. you then activate the quadjumper in question, perform a three forwards maneuver, which is blue, loosing the stress from the red boost you took through cad banes ability - and can tractor an enemy ship after having moved a neat speed 10 forwards that round.

it would look like this, where the > is the ships position and the - are the templates being used.

> - > - - > - > - - - >
....
edit: also, just realized you can just run afterburners instead of a device and cad bane, which is probably a lot better, just not as scummy.

This is exactly the rube-goldberg like scum plays I love to attempt!

Mostly pointless, overly complex to pull off, but we do it cause we can.

Sorry, but shaunmerritt is right. As the rules clearly state: "Each ship cannot drop or launch a device during the same phase that it decloaked."

Dropping/launching and decloaking are in the same phase - the system phase, so the order doesn't matter. So the Quadjumper Shenanigans are not possible in that way. But they are still annoying as ****

3 minutes ago, TheRealDruid said:

Sorry, but shaunmerritt is right. As the rules clearly state: "Each ship cannot drop or launch a device during the same phase that it decloaked."

Dropping/launching and decloaking are in the same phase - the system phase, so the order doesn't matter. So the Quadjumper Shenanigans are not possible in that way. But they are still annoying as ****

The order does matter, as the rest of the threat has stated. You can drop then decloak but can’t decloak then drop.

20 hours ago, meffo said:

<Some overly-Scummy scheme>

This is exactly why I hate playing against Scum.

On 7/22/2019 at 9:03 PM, shaunmerritt said:

The simple fix would be a timing chart for the system phase. whatever the order is to be determined... but you could do...

1) devices

2) de-cloaking

3) pilot abilities / upgrade cards

Doing that would effect other combination of upgrades as well like Moff Jejerrod and bombing. How about not changing the rules when they are clear enough as it is.

3 hours ago, JJ48 said:

This is exactly why I hate playing against Scum.

On 7/22/2019 at 10:43 AM, shaunmerritt said:

I guess, but I still kinda of disagree. Maybe its just the way FFG wrote it that is throwing me for a loop.

Its pretty bad. I see both sides here. But i think most are arguing that the wording of Delcoaked (being past tense) actually matters.

One the one hand, i can see FFG allowing this, as it would still mean that (most) ships would have to drop a device where they are at from their last turn, not allowing you to change positions before dropping it (now that you know where everyone is).

On the other hand, i also see your side in thinking the past tense of "decloaked" is just semantics, and what FFG actually means is, 'you cannot drop a device and decloak in the same phase". But if that is the case, why didnt FFG just write it that way? Could be because everyone else is correct, or could be yet another example of FFG not proofreading its own rules and using poor phrasing.

However, until FFG makes any changes, id probably say that we stick to their (poor?) wording and allow dropping, then decloaking, but not decloaking, then dropping. At least until that tactic gets used enough for FFG to be like "wait... that isnt what we intended" lol.

Wow. This is about the first time I really understand why people are arguing a point.

Somehow I manage to believe everyone (and therefore i guess also no-one) is correct.

"Each ship cannot drop or launch a device during the same phase that it decloaked."

As read (like normal people read) from start to finish does seem to suggest one limitation only, with an intended sequence. You can't drop a bomb after it decloaked. So I get why people argue that it means you can bomb then decloak, but not decloak then bomb.

BUT, they didn't use the word "after" it decloaked. They specifically use the term "during the same phase".

Which to me suggests that in both sections (cloaking and devices) they used the exact same sentence for consistency. But the rule as stated means that both "device" and "decloaking" cannot happen "during the same phase".

But then again, they couldn't have said "after", even though this would have made it obvious that it's a one-way limitation.

"Each ship cannot drop or launch a device after it decloaked." Would it mean once it decloaked it can no longer drop devices, ever?

Ok.... overthinking.

For now I would go for the "bomb -> decloak = Yes, decloak -> bomb = No" interpretation, but I'm not 100% convinced.

I would really like to see an official clarification for this.