To address the design and gameplay imbalance the original text presented, three cards from the WFRP Core Set have been revised.

Talent Card: Aqshy Order
Melee Attack Card: Double Strike
Ranged Attack Card: Rapid Fire

Low-rez and High-rez PDF versions of these cards are available for download from the WFRP Support Page .

Our goal is to re-print these cards and include the revised versions in an upcoming product.

Solid changes! Good calls on all three cards.

ynnen said:

Yet, another very nice benefit of having everything on cards! It's WAY easier to errata than if it were written down in a book!

I really like the idea of adding errated cards in an upcoming product! Good job FFG!

Any chance of a 'turn in your old ones' exchange system for players of the 1st gen cards?

ynnen said:

Ok, it's godd the hear that. So now we are waiting for some new announcment about the new products. Oh, and by the way - The Gathering Storm ROCKS! It's one of the best campains that I ever saw - it's really good even comparing to The Enemy Within.

lol nice... those are my house rules

Bright order 1 to 1 damage bonus, rapid fire and double strike... nice. I can remove those house rules when we get the new cards.

ynnen said:

So In witch new prodect we will see the revised version of those cards? Is it The Winds Of Magic or the Edge Of Night? And when will we see them?

The pdf files are pretty much exactly the same size as the cards, just without the corners rounded off. If you keep your cards in sleeves, you can print them out, trim them up, and slide them right into the sleeve over the existing card.

mac40k said:

I agre, it's really a good idea but why do that? If FFG will make a printed version of those cards and they will be avalaible for free with the next upcomming expansion for WFRP. I will wait, of coure if any one needs them right now then Your idea is the best way to do it.

ffgfan said:

Of course anyone that doesn't need the cards because they either aren't playing currently or using these cards in their game can afford to wait until the official reprints are released and doesn't need to waste the ink or toner printing these out. It's still a nicer solution for those of us that are using them than just issuing errata for the cards and leaving it up to you to either deface your existing cards with a pen or else keep remembering to refer to the errata during play while waiting for the official reprints to be released. Also, putting out the pdfs is nice for those people who may not be interested in buying whatever release the reprint cards end up being a part of.

mac40k said:

Yes, I agre with You Mac40k. I'm going to wait for them with the next expansion but still it is good that the pdf versions of those cards are avaliable for download - thanks Ynnen!

Great changes. It's a pretty big nerf to the action cards but those were ridiculous in power, now they are useful, but not so good that it was the only card the players would use like before. Now my troll slayer is looking at using other cards finally

Actually we are finding Trollfeller Strike does more damage per round than the original Double Strike.

Using a 'Fast' weapon means Trollfeller can be used mostly every turn. I like the revised DS because it adds an option for mowing down low soak targets quickly - not that it dramatically reduces melee characters damage output.

If would be nice to have pdf's and eventually reprints on the other cards errata/FAQ notes misprinted - the Icy Stare talent and the insanity with "trait" printed instead of two circumstances (forget which now),

Rob

Fresnel said:

But you can't use it against everybody. Only against bigger opponents or when you're outnumbered (and I take this as meaning: you're going to lose!).

Using a "Fast" weapon with Trollfeller Strike feels wrong to me. I wouldn't mind an extra requirement that the weapon needs to be non-fast.

mcv said:

What percentage of opponents are bigger than a dwarf? A herd of snotling - then he's outnumbered. Hordes of hunchmen are rather common too. Really the occasions where he can't use Trollfeller are rare...

I see Trollfeller Strike being 'active' when the Slayer realises he is fighting something that would purge his dishonour if he dies. That's when his excitment kicks in, and the action becomes available.

The wording on the card is ok for new GM's/players and those unfamilar with the world ... but it could have been better - creatures 10 foot tall, or outnumbered 3-1 by man-sized creatures (or something similar). The current wording implies that if 2 slayers fight, the shorter one gets an advantage But at the end of the day, I think that being a Slayer should be a role-playing choice, and such decisions should be determined by a roleplaying distinction (not necessarily a mechanical one)

Fresnel said:

There's a lot of room for interpretation, and that's what GMs are for. I wouldn't let it count against a regular human. Just the name "Trollfeller" is a good hint that "bigger" is not a matter of a few inches in height. Trollfeller Strike is for killing trolls, giants and dragons.

In a similar way, I wouldn't say that 3 snotlings outnumber a single dwarf. 30 snotlings might. If you're in a group of 5 fighting a group of 6, you're not sufficiently outnumbered in my opinion. You actually have to feel outnumbered.

Although personally I think it'd make more sense if only size mattered. Fighting a very big opponent is very different from fighting a lot of opponents.

Fabs said:

That's a really good description of how it could work. Thanks!

The 'Slayer' trait marked on the card is not a restriction. Non-slayers can use this card. Most humans/orcs are more than a 'few inches' taller than dwarfs... The meaning of outnumbered is also clear. (Number of opponents in engagement) > (Number of allies + you in engagement).

Placing a host of house rules on the card is your choice. However, the point is that, using a 'Fast' weapon, 'Trollfeller Strike' is as powerful (if not more so) than the original 'Double Strike' in RAW.

Fresnel said:

That's not house rules, they are interpretations. The text on the card is not exact, thus the GM is free to interpret how it can be used. I find it pretty obvious that a dwarf is not meant to be able to use the card against normal sized opponents (humans, beastmen, orcs).

If you want a more game mechanic restriction I would require the opponent to have Toughness higher or equal to 6 (or just higher than the player's To) for the card to be used. In my opinion this is still not a house rule, it is an interpretation of the vague statement "facing a physically larger opponent".

you could rule that larger means larger die-cut standup. so larger would be limited to trolls, giants, rat ogres, etc.

Gotta say I really like Bindlespin's idea about "bigger" refering to size of cardboard standup, and Fabs' idea about TFS being "active" when there's a situation that would purge your dishonor if you died. Those are both cool interpretations.

Troll-Feller Strike certainly can't literally mean "if they're half an inch taller than your character, it counts". In this edition, we don't roll up height or weight, so you could totally metagame that by just describing your character as being short for his or her race, and thereby get the bonuses against more targets. There has to be a cutting off point, and that grey area is totally GM perogative. I wouldn't let a Troll Slayer use that particular move against a scrawny elfin teenager or sickly human senior that was technically an inch or two taller than the dwarf, for example. I think spirit of the rules trumps the letter.

A couple weeks ago, I was running WHFRP for my weekly one-shot group. We're a big group, and there were 6 PCs at the table. One of them was a troll-slayer, and he had Troll-Feller Strike. They were fighting a bunch of beastmen, I think it was 7 beastmen to 6 PCs. I told them that he couldn't use it against the Ungor unless they outnumbered him in his engagement . Him against 1 ungor was a no-go, even if 6 more of them were within medium range. 2 ungors double-teaming him up close allowed for TFS, though. I also allowed TFS on the Wargor regardless of numbers, because he was a big enough threat. The player didn't have any trouble with this ruling.

And yeah I am a midget-dwarf trollslayer so I can basically use my Troll-feller strike against everything, even a snotling.

Nah, that doesn`t fly right with me. I think both fab and Bindlespin makes a solid case here about the honour codex and the size of cardboard stand-up.

There seems to be three different sizes of this cardboard stand-ups, and they could represent size catergories used for game terms. Snotling stand-up (small size), All PC career stand-ups (medium size) and Troll stand-up (large size).

And only large size creatures could be effected by the Troll-feller strike, and in other situations or against monsters deemed fit by the GM accordingly to roleplatying and the honour codex.

Good gaming

Mal Reynolds said:

I agre in 100%. This is a good idea to use the stand-ups as a definition of size. This is a effective solution and clears the problem of Troll-feller Strike.

The Winds Of Magic are closer with every day so I think so are the cards with errata - I hope.