Alright, trying a different approach. so far 4-1 with this squad. Beaten Energy Shell swarm , a republic ARC swarm---one Soontir / Whisper / +2 squad, and 1 rebel beef. Lost to Obi Wan / Mace + 2 torrents, but it was on a single roll at the end where everything fell apart. The list as is now;

Anti Joust Inc. (200)

Graz (46)

Captain Seevor (30)
Outmaneuver (6)

Ahhav (30)
Outmaneuver (6)

Zealous Recruit (44)

Cartel Marauder (38)
Total: 200

Original list was 2-2 that had a quadjumper in place of the Cartel Marauder and Ndru in place of Ahav, but the quad just couldn't fly fast to engage or keep up with the wingmates and got avoided or nuked early. Ndru didn't play nice with 4 other ships. This version has no bid, but having the Cartel puts another 3 die primary knife fighter that is a bit tanky and must be accounted for.

The approach is just utter mayhem, but with a purpose. Most of the time so far, I don't even have a ship within 3 bases of another. It's catching some lists off guard so far. Force users & Aces hate not having evade dice to modify, as do 1 agility ships becoming weaker version of a VCX, so the MG TIEs.are proving pretty helpful. They each are only 18% of the list, thankfully. Majority of the list fires after Seevor jams by design. Graz lurks on the perimeter and hunts any who turn their back on him to chase the others. Flanking pincer with the MG TIEs, (Ahav there as precaution to shoot med/large bases with 4-5 dice), Zealous Recruit working the center to line up blocks and if ignored shooting 3 primary with focus. Cartel to hurt any who ignore him also, flying 4 base length or so behind at 4 or 8 oclock of the Recruit. Zero formation flying though. It's more of a pinwheel pincer swarm chaos theory philosophy , if that makes sense.

Surprisingly fun so far. I'm starting to see it an anti joust without turning your back on an opponent can be done---but it helps to have 5 ships as one gets lost as a sacrifice. Having speed is certainly beneficial. If Leia were still costed so low this entire premise gets rebuffed mightily. But I am finding Scum are actually pretty able to fly in this regard where I don't care about losing any of these ships in the alpha if it means jousters are a bit more disadvantaged for the rest of the game.

Curious what other anti joust lists some might be experimenting with and their general gameplans.

cheers to all

Great idea.

I don't have anything crazy like this, but as a general rule I like to run a jousting group and then two other ships that flank.

3 minutes ago, BlastyMcBlasterFace said:

Great idea.

I don't have anything crazy like this, but as a general rule I like to run a jousting group and then two other ships that flank.

What ships? What builds? Where are you lining up the jousting group and are the flankers same side or pincering? I'm so CURIOUS!!!

Well, I got 12th in our local Regional by running loaded out Nien and Lulo (before the points change) as my flankers, and my jousters were Bastian and a Red Expert with Heroic.

Lately I've been trying to figure out the same sort of thing with Obi-Wan and Ric + Torrents or ARCs.

My tricksy anti-joust strat is Zuckuss with Boba Fett crew for turn1 scum jank.

Scum also has 1 top tier joust ship to outjoust other jousters. Cartel Executioner with R5-P8. (47 points)

Otherwise the best strat is blocking, which your Zealous Recruit can do perfectly. Your list is great and is the sort of list I fly.

An update. Since last post the W/L record total is 10-2, including an undefeated 3 win run of a local 11 person store tournament on Sunday. The version I used there was two Zeta SFs with gunner, Scorch and Longshot both with Outmanuever, and Null with a 7 point bid. Had to go with that since it was a Hyperspace tournament. Close games, but beat 5 ship Rebel beef, FO Kylo /QD /Scorch, and Resistance init 5 Aces.

Went back to the extended version last night. Obliterated a torps regen Dengar with Fenn and L337 (Ahav was very happy to get a 4 dice attack on a 1 Ag Dengar) and lost to Obi-Wan, Padme, and Plo. I messed up the engagement a bit and left Ahav a bit too far out where he get one shotted by Kenobi thanks to Padme's ability. Was able to whack Plo the next turn but lost the Cartel Marauder. From there Obi-Wan and Padme were able to make short work of the remaining three ships. Jedi sure don't care about bumping or red moves. Free force mods are pretty good and Padme's ability is just bonkers.

Going to keep chopping wood and practicing with Outmanuever Anti Jousting ideas though. It could be a talent that in multiples yields better benefit in the way that Trick Shot or Juke does. The FO version might even be better; would have won the bid, had Null as cheap pocket Ace, Scorch and Longshot have a bit more speed and survivability than the MG TIEs, and those SFs fit the role of the Kihraxzes aptly.

An Outmanuever Midnight is also creeping into my list ideas. If I'm reading her ability correctly, she can use it as it isn't modification of a result, correct?

Thanks to all interested reading my thinking aloud.

1-2 tonight, all games vs. Republic lists, this time went back to the First Order version. First game I won vs. Padme/Obi Wan / Plo in a revenge match against the player i played yesterday. Flew my engagement much better and outmanuever hit 4 times and was very effective. But then, things went downhill fast.

Flew against spinny Anakin Composure stack passive sensors plasma torpedo boy. Super effective. But it was Ric Olie (I call him the Matador cause it's fun to say his name as if he were bullfighting) in the second game who ran circles around me. Plus, Outmanuever isn't very good against ships with secondary arcs, and he had two 105th Arc170s that did all sorts of heavy lifting. Tried to make it a good fight the second game and almost dug out of a hole, but it just wasn't enough. Also, the guy I played against (x-wing famous podcast fella who was hilarious) for the two losses was certainly a top level talent and he just straight up out flew me. Fun game though. 11-4 for the finish for the anti joust concept.

WHAT I LEARNED

My list concept worked well vs traditional swarms, any list with a large ship, and most Range band Rebel beef. It struggled against secondary firing arc lists and was downright worthless without mods. I got lucky in alot of my wins purely on dice. Outmanuever is streaky AF. I got better at working against pure joust lists, but x-wing is not just about setting or avoiding the joust---it's about having options to deal with a variety of threats. No one strategy is absolute. The more pillars you can implement, that's where better players really get revealed. I win about 60-40 of the time in 2.0 but I roll usually very hot or my opponents roll cold. I get bailed out alot.

What I need to get better at is identifying versatile tools and implementing them to fit the game state more effectively. Not just win conditions, but actual utility of ship to situation. I tend to play efficiency lists alot; I need to start experimenting with variety. Not necessarily jank, although there's a place for that, but putting pieces together that as a whole give me a fighting chance against multiple threats. Quickdraw with Afterburners is a perfect example... Can play the jousting hammer, or can dart and dodge at initiative 6.

I will say this though... Republic is a really good faction in terms of options. In the right hands, they are very difficult to deal with. I also haven't played any force users yet in 2.0. Maybe it's time. Too bad my factions are only Rebels, Scum, Resistance and FO. Ho ping Knights of Ren widen the force pilot field for me...

Cheers

17 hours ago, Cloaker said:

spinny Anakin Composure stack passive sensors plasma torpedo boy  . Super effective.

This probably shouldn't be super effective, at least the Composure part. The obvious trick to try would be spend focus>barrel roll>fail barrel roll>focus>profit. But that would miss the whole thing of Anakin's spin is not a barrel roll action. Am I missing a trick?

But it sounds like you're making some good, insightful progress. Good job!

1 hour ago, RebelRogue said:

This probably shouldn't be super effective, at least the Composure part. The obvious trick to try would be spend focus>barrel roll>fail barrel roll>focus>profit. But that would miss the whole thing of Anakin's spin is not a barrel roll action. Am I missing a trick?

But it sounds like you're making some good, insightful progress. Good job!

Thank you--trying to see the game through some different lens for now. It turns out my opponent was making a mistake... composure doesn't work that way, you are correct!