Just wanted to see if I understood this correctly. If I have a enemy in play with Indestructible, but not immune to player cards effects (there a few of those) can I actually bypass the Indestructible keyword with Revealed in Wrath, being than able to kill that enemy if it has more damage than hit points?

Yes but typically text somewhere in the game -- like on a quest card -- will prevent this from working. I can't think of any case where this would work. Could you give us an example?

5 hours ago, GrandSpleen said:

Yes but typically text somewhere in the game -- like on a quest card -- will prevent this from working. I can't think of any case where this would work. Could you give us an example?

For example fighting againts Durin's Bane in Shadow and Flame (never mind that Stage 3 specifically calls out putting it out of play through Dark Pit to be able to win) or in Stage 2 of The Battle of Carn Dum, usually Thaurdir loses Indestructible when you get 15 Quest Points on it, but could you kill it before using this trick?

For Thaurdir if the problem is the "cannot leave the staging area" bit, then how do you win at all? The quest only says it loses Indestructible, so you have to presume that in that case if you pile up enough damage on it it's destroyed (or defeated as the quest says) and than you win, otherwise it's unwinnable. But that's basically the same thing the Revealed in Wrath does, making it lose the keyword.

Action : Choose a non-unique enemy. Until the end of the phase, treat the chosen enemy's printed text box as if it were blank (except for Traits).

[Emphasis added.] Most Indestructible enemies are unique, rendering them ineligible for Revealed in Wrath.

2 minutes ago, sappidus said:

[Emphasis added.] Most Indestructible enemies are unique, rendering them ineligible for Revealed in Wrath.

Ok that's fair, I didn't remember that restriction good catch. Then what about the Undead Thrall from Nightmare Treachery of Rhudaur, which I think is the only possibility left?

2 minutes ago, Alonewolf87 said:

Then  what about the Undead Thrall from Nightmare Treachery o  f Rhudaur, which I think is the only possibility left?  

Haven't played the quest to be sure, but at a glance it seems like Revealed in Wrath should work there.

Ok thanks for the help. Sometimes I come across those cards I don't often use and I tried to find new ways to use them, but I am not always sure of all the intricacies.

I guess though right now I have some questions about those enemies/locations which "cannot leave the staging area". Does that mean that if they would have enough damage/quest points to be destroyed/explored they still don't leave play?

19 minutes ago, sappidus said:

Haven't played the quest to be sure, but at a glance it seems like Revealed in Wrath should work there.

7 hours ago, Alonewolf87 said:

For example fighting againts Durin's Bane in Shadow and Flame (never mind that Stage 3 specifically calls out putting it out of play through Dark Pit to be able to win) or in Stage 2 of The Battle of Carn Dum, usually Thaurdir loses Indestructible when you get 15 Quest Points on it, but could you kill it before using this trick?

For Thaurdir if the problem is the "cannot leave the staging area" bit, then how do you win at all? The quest only says it loses Indestructible, so you have to presume that in that case if you pile up enough damage on it it's destroyed (or defeated as the quest says) and than you win, otherwise it's unwinnable. But that's basically the same thing the Revealed in Wrath does, making it lose the keyword.

Neither of those will work, because revealed in wrath only works on non unique enemies.

With regard to the general principle, though: if there were a non unique enemy that gained indestructible via text on its own card (not via a quest card, treachery, or location), then I believe that you could blank the text box, thus being able to kill it.

To the best of my knowledge, though, nothing like that exists

3 hours ago, Onidsen said:

Neither of those will work, because revealed in wrath only works on non unique enemies.

With regard to the general principle, though: if there were a non unique enemy that gained indestructible via text on its own card (not via a quest card, treachery, or location), then I believe that you could blank the text box, thus being able to kill it.

To the best of my knowledge, though, nothing like that exists

What about Undead Thrall?

6 hours ago, Alonewolf87 said:

Ok thanks for the help. Sometimes I come across those cards I don't often use and I tried to find new ways to use them, but I am not always sure of all the intricacies.

I guess though right now I have some questions about those enemies/locations which "cannot leave the staging area". Does that mean that if they would have enough damage/quest points to be destroyed/explored they still don't leave play?

Cannot leave the staging area means, that you cannot engage said enemy or travel to the location. And safe for the Black Serpent and Durin's Bane all those cards are immune to player cards anyway. But you can kill thoses enemies, as long as they are not indestructible and you are able to attack them (i.e. some effect says considered to be engaged).

1 hour ago, Amicus Draconis said:

What about Undead Thrall?

Cannot leave the staging area means, that you cannot engage said enemy or travel to the location. And safe for the Black Serpent and Durin's Bane all those cards are immune to player cards anyway. But you can kill thoses enemies, as long as they are not indestructible and you are able to attack them (i.e. some effect says considered to be engaged).

Ah - I'm not as familiar with the nightmare quests. Revealed in wrath should work for that one. Should also work for the brown water rats.

2 hours ago, Amicus Draconis said:

Cannot leave the staging area means, that you cannot engage said enemy or travel to the location. And safe for the Black Serpent and Durin's Bane all those cards are immune to player cards anyway. But you can kill thoses enemies, as long as they are not indestructible and you are able to attack them (i.e. some effect says considered to be engaged).

But we have indications from Caleb that if a location cannot leave the staging area then it cannot be explored.

14 hours ago, Alonewolf87 said:

But we have indications from Caleb that if a location cannot leave the staging area then it cannot be explored.

Caleb said "If a location cannot leave play, then it cannot be explored", nowhere in his answer does he specify the staging area. And yet some enemies must leave play in order to win a quest, even if they cannot leave the staging area: Bolg in Battle of the Five Armies, Durin's Bane in Shadow and Flame, Thaurdir in Battle of Carn Dûm and Dagnir in Mount Gundabad.

15 hours ago, Alonewolf87 said:

But we have indications from Caleb that if a location cannot leave the staging area then it cannot be explored.

I always felt funny about those rulings, since exploring means enough progress tokens have been placed, which is different than discarding the card in question (the latter of which, not the former, violates the "cannot leave the staging area" clause).

18 hours ago, Amicus Draconis said:

Caleb said "If a location cannot leave play, then it cannot be explored", nowhere in his answer does he specify the staging area. And yet some enemies must leave play in order to win a quest, even if they cannot leave the staging area: Bolg in Battle of the Five Armies, Durin's Bane in Shadow and Flame, Thaurdir in Battle of Carn Dûm and Dagnir in Mount Gundabad.

I had alread asked for a more clear ruling on that matter and this is the answer I got a few hours ago

Quote

Hi guys,

Cards that ‘cannot leave the staging area’ do not leave play even when they have enough progress / damage to defeat them.

Thaurdir is ‘considered to be engaged with each player’ at stage 2B, so you can fight him while he is in the staging area. When he loses the indestructible keyword, he will be defeated as soon as he has damage equal to his hit points.

Cheers,

Caleb

So now I asked for a better clarification about "defeated", "destroyed", "indestructible", explored as opposed to discarded for those location and how exactly to deal with those quests like Carn Dum where it seems with rulings like these you are locked down in an unwinnable state. I will post the answer as soon as I get it.