Talent Tree Limit

By Joress, in Genesys

Posted at

I've been having a discussion with other Genesys players about adding more talent sheet boxes to the existing 5 column, 7 row sheet. Is there a limit on how many talent trees a PC can have? Or a limit on how many rows a player to continue to add on a talent sheet?

Obviously, with a system like Genesys, customization is part of the play. But wanted to get some feed back on the pros, cons, good, bad, and RAW.

Edited by Joress
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it is my interpretation, that you can add bottom rows ad infinitum. You just have to add those Tier 1, Tier 2, etc.... talents to get to that juicy Tier 5 again. And again. And again.

Posted at
12 minutes ago, Xcapobl said:

it is my interpretation, that you can add bottom rows ad infinitum. You just have to add those Tier 1, Tier 2, etc.... talents to get to that juicy Tier 5 again. And again. And again.

That is correct. There is no limit except that you might run out of lower tier talents to fill the base .

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Does it specify anywhere in the CRB that this is the intention of the Talent Tree? Or is this a house rule, Xcapobl and HappyDaze? I can't seem to find anywhere where it eludes to the idea of adding more rows on a talent tree is the expectation. I do find copy that suggests a limitation of sorts when it comes to talents...

"This system is designed to encourage some difficult choices (do you keep buying more ranks in a single talent or buy the exclusive, high-tier talents when you get access to them?), and it helps ensure that every character feels a bit different."

(BTW, thanks for the feedback already! Just a wholesome debate, not trying to be antagonistic.)

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The structure of the talent pyramid on the character sheet isn't explicitly referred to in any mechanics, so I wouldn't place much stock in that. I think what you're looking for is essentially a statement disproving something the rules never really establish.

There's no text stating an upper limit on talents, so it's safe to assume there isn't one.

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You’re not going to find any rule that says you can have any number of talents because the pyramid on the sheet is constrained by space. They couldn’t physically fit any more talent boxes on an 8.5”x11” sheet of paper.

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6 minutes ago, c__beck said:

You’re not going to find any rule that says you can have any number of talents because the pyramid on the sheet is constrained by space. They couldn’t physically fit any more talent boxes on an 8.5”x11” sheet of paper.

However, this being FFG, give them the idea and they'll print special edition sheets on 8.5"x14" paper. The cost may be an issue for some, but it's no barrier for the true believers...

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Drainsmith with the PDF! 😊 Very nice, sir.

So, I guess it would be safe to say that the majority of Genesys users see talents continuing beyond the page borders. Unless we ever get a dev saying "Stop that heresy!", I'll assume continuing talent trees the way to go!

I bring it up as we are trying to decide whether of not to add that level of functionality on the RPG Sessions Genesys Talent trees, which are currently only constrained to our own coded parameters, like with this example .

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You're definitely going to want to have the ability to add more lines at the bottom. Maybe a (+) add a line up to like 128 or something depending on what you can store and what the browser can display.

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This is the only rule we have for buying talents (CRB72, top of the page) :

6KArAFI.png

That's all we have. Nothing about a limit on the number of talents. Nothing about a finite number of 'slots'. Just one simple rule to follow.

Edited by c__beck
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Please correct me if I'm wrong on this. From what I understand, you can continue to buy a ranked talent beyond tier 5, infinitely. It stays at the tier 5 slot and price. This was something I saw a long while back but I want to be sure that's how it works, because I can see it messing with the game's balance in high xp games (character with 40+ wounds, character with over 10 soak, character with 6 ranks of Dodge, etc). I understand the notion that if they are spending their xp on the one talent over and over that's xp they could have spent elsewhere but some players like to have the most xyz of any player so they don't consider that they are missing out on more useful talents.

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4 minutes ago, GroggyGolem said:

Please correct me if I'm wrong on this. From what I understand, you can continue to buy a ranked talent beyond tier 5, infinitely. It stays at the tier 5 slot and price. This was something I saw a long while back but I want to be sure that's how it works, because I can see it messing with the game's balance in high xp games (character with 40+ wounds, character with over 10 soak, character with 6 ranks of Dodge, etc). I understand the notion that if they are spending their xp on the one talent over and over that's xp they could have spent elsewhere but some players like to have the most xyz of any player so they don't consider that they are missing out on more useful talents.

CRB72, right-hand column:

" If a ranked talent is already at Tier 5 (or has reached Tier 5 after multiple purchases), that talent remains at Tier 5 for any future purchases. "

And yes, while you could have 10 ranks in Toughened (the needed number of ranks for 40+ wounds) you still need the underlying talents to support that many tier 5 talents. That's 5 additional tier 5 talents, which cost 75XP per 'column'. There just aren't that many talents to support that many!

In addition, while you may be able to get 6 ranks of Dodge, you won't be using all of them every time. That's 6 strain if you're using them all at once!

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2 minutes ago, c__beck said:

you won't be using all of them every time.

You underestimate my power!

err... wrong setting quote.

Thanks for the quick response!

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7 hours ago, drainsmith said:

I actually made a fourth page for my version of the SotB sheet that is full of boxes. I haven't gotten around to doing it with the the generic sheet yet.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/v08w53zx7uy9cah/ShadowOfTheBeanstalk-Vector v1.3.0.pdf?dl=0

Looks excellent.

I have one minor gripe, however, and it is with just about every character sheet I have seen with the Talent Pyramid. There always seems to be an arrow pointing downward under every talent box. Almost as if implying you can just buy talents by following the arrows (in the same way Star Wars FFG talents are bought following the lines in the Talent Trees), and not needing to fill those lower Tier slots first.

Other than that, again, looks excellent.

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@Xcapobl The official sheet has those arrows.

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5 hours ago, drainsmith said:

@Xcapobl The official sheet has those arrows.

I know. And I find them "out of place" there too. The text about first filling in lower Tier talents is clear, but the image dilutes that, in my opinion by implying a possible route without filling in lower Tiers ("Just follow the arrows"). Consequently, when I made a generic Genesys character sheet in Excel, I left out all those downward arrows, except in the left most column.

😉