How would this interaction work, Since R4 decreases the difficulty, does that change the dial or can Cove reveal a red, get the advantage for getting an extra die and then have the decrease in movement ?

Functionally, it changes the dial. Whenever the dial is called on, be it to execute a manoeuvre, or to look at it for Cova's ability, you check it, and R4 intervenes and says 'nope that mve is not red it's white'.

Interesting because Cova says when you reveal a red maneuver, that is why I was wondering the order of operation, since R4 just says it reduces the difficulty, not changes the dial? Thanks

3 minutes ago, librarian101 said:

Interesting because Cova says when you reveal a red maneuver, that is why I was wondering the order of operation, since R4 just says it reduces the difficulty, not changes the dial? Thanks

My reading of it is that she can freely take advantage of R4 without losing the reds. She reveals the maneuver, executes it with reduced difficulty, but then still has the original maneuver as what she revealed.

There's no timing on R4; it's always active, even when Cova is checking for her ability. However I'd also note that this would only block Cova from using the 1 hard turns to power her ability, as R4 has no effect on the stop/reverse maneuvers or the fast maneuvers.

25 minutes ago, librarian101 said:

Interesting because Cova says when you reveal a red maneuver, that is why I was wondering the order of operation, since R4 just says it reduces the difficulty, not changes the dial? Thanks

Cova doesn't say "when you reveal a red maneuver." It says "If your revealed maneuver..." which means whatever maneuver is currently on the face-up dial when the ability is resolved. If the revealed maneuver is a 1-2 speed basic maneuver, R4 reduces its difficulty.

What’s this? New content and more questions from unclear edge case directions? I’m shocked! Shocked!

ffg, please faq.

Pretty sure r4 doesn't change your dial

It just changes the manuevers you execute

Will confirm

Unlike Leia, R4 reduces the difficulty of the maneuver.

I think Leia is a better fit with Cove Nell than R4.

R4 just straight changes the difficulty (==color) of the manuever. Contrast with Leia, which only alters difficulty while you're executing it.

" DIFFICULTY: Each maneuver has three components: speed (a number 0–5), difficulty (red, white, or blue), and bearing (an arrow or other symbol).

During the Check Difficulty step of executing a maneuver, if the maneuver is red, the ship gains one stress token; if the maneuver is blue, the ship removes one stress token.

• A stressed ship cannot execute red maneuvers or perform actions.

• If an effect increases the difficulty of a maneuver, blue increases to white, and white increases to red. If an effect decreases the difficulty of a maneuver , red decreases to white, and white decreases to blue.

◊ An ability that increases the difficulty of a red maneuver or decreases the difficulty of a blue maneuver can resolve, but has no additional effect.

◊ If multiple abilities change the difficulty of a maneuver, the effects are cumulative. For example, if a ship reveals a red [4 󲁞] maneuver and has one effect that increases the difficulty of the maneuver and another effect that decreases the difficulty of the maneuver, the maneuver is treated as red."

--rules ref, page 10

https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/48/4d/484d07ae-6bdf-4e42-89af-180f728ad059/swzrulesreference_v104-compressedv2.pdf

So, here's the deal

I don't believe there's ANYTHING in the rules reference that suggests R4 physically changes your dial (likewise seasoned navigator etc)

I have no clue where we're getting this idea from (1st edition?). There's an actual Check Difficulty Step that occurs AFTER physically moving the ship, and that's quite clearly where R4/seasoned nav quick in.

Also,

"Some abilities reference a ship’s revealed maneuver outside of that ship’s activation. A ship’s revealed maneuver is the maneuver selected on its dial, which remains faceup next to that ship’s ship card until the next Planning Phase. ◊ If a ship’s dial is not revealed, or it was not assigned a dial that round, that ship does not have a revealed maneuver."

tl;dr: Cova reveals RED 1-turns and r4 means she executes them as WHITE 1-turns

This is an ongoing issue. I made a thread about it in rules forum , which I brought over from a LONG reddit thread. The new rules reference says your revealed maneuver is what is physically on your dial next to your pilot card. This stops abuse like Ric Olie revealing a 4straight, then using R2A6 from SETTING DIAL to a 3 speed and always procing Rics ability against 3 speed enemy ships. The revealed dial is what is next to his pilot card.

Any similar card combo interactions prior to this rules reference is irrelevant because this is a new rules addition. So combos like Hera+Nien crew may not work how you use to use them now (see my post above). The only argument is whether R4 "changes your dials colors" without physically being able to "change your dials colors". Like, should R4 come with stickers and when you equip R4, you place white hard 1's on Cova's dial?

16 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Cova reveals RED 1-turns and r4 means she executes them as WHITE 1-turns

This is incorrect. R4 astromech does not alter the maneuver you execute, it alters your maneuver full stop. Difficulty does not only exist during the execute maneuver step - difficulty is the word the rules use to refer to color.

11 minutes ago, svelok said:

This is incorrect. R4 astromech does not alter the maneuver you execute, it alters your maneuver full stop. Difficulty does not only exist during the execute maneuver step - difficulty is the word the rules use to refer to color.

and where is this assertion supported?

the rules reference only brings up the reduction of difficulty of maneuvers during the check difficulty step.

it says nothing about it physically changing the dial

FGD, this line that you posted is interesting:

◊ If multiple abilities change the difficulty of a maneuver, the effects are cumulative. For example, if a ship reveals a red [4 󲁞] maneuver and has one effect that increases the difficulty of the maneuver and another effect that decreases the difficulty of the maneuver, the maneuver is treated as red." 

That to me seems to support the conclusion that your revealed maneuver is red, and that you decrease the difficulty following that reveal.

Again: there is no timing window on R4. You look at your faceup dial by your pilot card and ask: “what is the difficulty of this maneuver?”

And R4 astromech says “It’s still white.”

R4 has no timing window; it is a persistent effect.

Given that the difficulty of the maneuver isn't checked until the aptly named Check Difficulty Step,

The only resulting weirdness would be attempting to execute a red maneuver while stressed while having R4 astromech. But since "Execute a Maneuver" includes the "Check Difficulty Step", I guess r4 lets you white turn when stressed anyway (and if you're stress and executre a maneuver and later realize it's red, I guess you redo the steps as a white 2-forward)

interesting note: a stressed ship attempting a red maneuver does NOT execute a white 2-forward, it "performs" it

@ ClassicalMoser there is an EXPLICIT timing window. It's in the rules ref and indented for our convenience. It's even called the "Check Difficulty step"

<--

6 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Given that the difficulty of the maneuver isn't checked until the aptly named Check Difficulty Step,

The only resulting weirdness would be attempting to execute a red maneuver while stressed while having R4 astromech. But since "Execute a Maneuver" includes the "Check Difficulty Step", I guess r4 lets you white turn when stressed anyway (and if you're stress and executre a maneuver and later realize it's red, I guess you redo the steps as a white 2-forward)

interesting note: a stressed ship attempting a red maneuver does NOT execute a white 2-forward, it "performs" it

@ ClassicalMoser there is an EXPLICIT timing window. It's in the rules ref.

No. That “check difficulty” step is only ONE possible timing window. This is the only time difficulty is normally checked because you’re seeing whether you receive or remove a stress token.

Cova Nell’s ability is also checking difficulty (difficulty == color). Read the R4 card. It DOES NOT have a timing window. What would Cova Nell be checking besides difficulty? They wouldn’t call it “color,” because that is an undefined term in the RR. She’s checking difficulty. R4 reduces difficulty.

The color of a maneuver is the same thing as that maneuver's difficulty (see: first sentence under 'difficulty'). Any time an ability references the color of a maneuver, it is checking that maneuver's difficulty.

The effects of cards that reduce the Difficulty of a Maneuver is only ever cited under the Check Difficulty Step. So, it's the ONLY possible timing window according to the rules ref (unless the search function is busted)

Notice how reduction/increases to difficulty the are never brought up under the definition of Maneuver (bolded to imitate format).

So, I'm to understand that effects like r4 only matter during the Check Difficulty Step. I have been given absolutely NO reason by the Rules Ref to believe it changes the dial.

I.e,

r4 reduces the difficulty of your maneuvers (specifically during Check Difficulty, as that's the only time these effects are ever brought up)

r4 DOES NOT physically affect your dial

So stuff like Cova doesn't care about r4 (as clarified by the pink/magneta w.e color addition to the rules ref). But stuff that triggers off of executing a certain color of maneuver (including basic mechanic of gaining/losing stress) does.

An effective counter-argument would basically need a specific citation of effects like r4 changing the difficulty of what is printed on dial (as opposed to just the maneuver), or something

Basically, there is a clear separation of two things

1. the maneuver physically printed on the dial
2. your maneuvers, i.e the ones the ship executes ("your/you" on upgrade cards = the ship the card is on)

3 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

The effects of cards that reduce the Difficulty of a Maneuver is only ever cited under the Check Difficulty Step.

Where on earth do you get this idea? This makes NO sense. The reason there is a "Check Difficulty" sub-step as part of the Perform Maneuver step is so that you know whether to add or remove a stress. What else would they call it? This is the only time you check difficulty by default but Difficulty == Color. They don't define "maneuver color" in the RR, but they do define difficulty as red, white, or blue.

The Rules Reference does not say that the "Check Difficulty" step is the only time that the "Difficulty" of a maneuver can be checked or referenced. Other things reference the difficulty of a maneuver as well, including Cova Nell.

To put the question differently, what is Cova Nell checking? You haven't answered this question . If it's not "Difficulty" then what is it? If it is "Difficulty" then R4 reduces it (there is no specific timing window). Something like "Color" isn't defined in the rules reference. Quite the contrary. "Red" is defined as the "Difficulty" of a maneuver. Cova Nell is checking the Difficulty of her revealed maneuver.

8 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

r4 DOES NOT physically affect your dial

Technically, this is true... but it hardly matters because every time you will check the difficulty of a 1-2 speed basic maneuver on your dial, R4 will affect it. The printed difficulty value is red, but R4 says that it's white. He doesn't say "While you execute a 1-2-speed basic maneuver, reduce its difficulty." That is the way Leia is worded. That is not the way R4 is worded. It says "Reduce the difficulty of your 1-2-speed basic maneuvers." No timing window. Persistent effect.

7 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Where on earth do you get this idea?

The official rules reference. I posted screen captures of it to save us the trouble of flipping back and forth

and yes, I have answered what Cova Nell is checking. It's in pink/magneta/salmon w.e

Again:

R4 doesn't do diddly to the difficulty of the revealed maneuver. It only ever triggers during the Check Difficulty Step. This is in the Rules Reference, it doesn't need to be added to the card. It'd be like Juke having to specify "before the defender modifies their dice"

IF R4 physically changed your dial, all it'd have to say is "Reduce the difficulty of your Revealed Maneuvers"

8 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

The official rules reference. I posted screen captures of it to save us the trouble of flipping back and forth

and yes, I have answered what Cova Nell is checking.

Again:

You've said she's checking the revealed maneuver. You haven't said what aspect of the revealed maneuver she's checking. She's checking its difficulty. This isn't difficult to understand.

You're also conveniently skipping out on this whole section:

Quote

DIFFICULTY
Each maneuver has three components: speed (a number 0–5), difficulty (red,
white, or blue), and bearing (an arrow or other symbol).

During the Check Difficulty step of executing a maneuver, if the maneuver
is red, the ship gains one stress token; if the maneuver is blue, the ship
removes one stress token.

• A stressed ship cannot execute red maneuvers or perform actions.

• If an effect increases the difficulty of a maneuver, blue increases to white,
and white increases to red. If an effect decreases the difficulty of a
maneuver, red decreases to white, and white decreases to blue.

◊ An ability that increases the difficulty of a red maneuver or decreases
the difficulty of a blue maneuver can resolve, but has no additional
effect.

◊ If multiple abilities change the difficulty of a maneuver, the effects are
cumulative. For example, if a ship reveals a red [4K] maneuver and
has one effect that increases the difficulty of the maneuver and another
effect that decreases the difficulty of the maneuver, the maneuver is
treated as red.

Where does it say that "Difficulty" can only be checked in the "Check Difficulty" step? It doesn't . Cova Nell is checking the Difficulty of her Revealed Maneuver. She's not checking the speed, she's not checking the bearing. She's checking to see if it is red. Red is defined as a difficulty. R4 changes difficulty. R4 does not say "While you Execute a Maneuver." The RR does not say Difficulty only applies to execution. Difficulty IS Color. Full Stop.

I am not sure how you came to the conclusion that a maneuver's difficulty is only ever checked during the execution of a maneuver when this entire thread is about an ability that specifically checks the difficulty of your revealed maneuver while you are not executing it

10 minutes ago, Maui. said:

I am not sure how you came to the conclusion that a maneuver's difficulty is only ever checked during the execution of a maneuver when this entire thread is about an ability that specifically checks the difficulty of your revealed maneuver while you are not executing it

you're misinterpreting my meaning

I'm saying R4's effect is only ever applied during the Check Difficulty Step

Note the very specific indentation

The Difficulty of the revealed maneuver is always present, but R4 only triggers during the check difficulty step because that's where the Rules Reference puts all effects of that type. They are not mentioned anywhere else that the Search function could find

I.e, there is NOTHING stating that abilities that reduce/increase the difficulty of your maneuver affect the revealed maneuver until you actually try to execute it

So again, for like the fifth time, Cova reveals a RED 1-turn and executes a WHITE 1-turn. Her abilities triggers because she revealed a RED 1-turn

Yeah blue, white, red, and purple are difficulties conveniently represented by colors on dials and action bars.