2 hours ago, Jarval said:

But their is a question to how long Leia does apply for - is it just for the execution of the manoeuvrer, the activation, or the turn? There's nothing explicitly saying how long her effect applies for, and while I don't think anyone would argue that it applies for the whole game, I could see people arguing that it does apply for the whole turn, including for the purposes of Cova's pilot ability.

There should be absolutely no question about how long Leia works for. FFG intends for Leia to reduce Cova's (and by extension, any pilot's) difficulty only during the activation phase and they laid out that exact scenario in their article.

" Similarly, Leia Organa removes the drawbacks from Resistance Transport Pilot Cova Nell’s ability, allowing her to roll an additional die while defending or performing a primary attack without gaining the stress token from her revealed red maneuver. "

I'll reiterate:

Based on the clarification of what revealed maneuver is in Rules Reference 1.04, Cova's ability happens outside of the ship's activation. So the scenario I see is this: Cova reveals red during activation, Leia reduces difficulty to white during activation, now in engagement phase the maneuver that was revealed is red because it "is the maneuver selected on its dial".

The article writers are not rules writers and are freuqently wrong.

Leia is badly written and need errata to add an endpoint to her timing.

--

To the thread at large: during the engagement phase, when Cova has revealed a 1 turn, is that 1 turn on her dial, one of her speed 1-2 basic manoeuvres?

Just to make thigs clear about all this discussion (all this IMHO):

- Nell's ability refers to the color of the maneuver on the dial. Nothing can change that. The same as Hera. If you reveal a red, then you got your added dices.
- To compare with Lando Rebel, on the Lando card, it is "after you fully EXECUTE a blue maneuver". It is about execution, not revealing. So yes, Lando Rebel can work with Nien.
- To add a complexity, if you reveal a white or blue and are triple-stressed, and you have connix, you can still increase the difficulty of the maneuver, but you also have to set the dial to the new maneuver. Meaning that if you turn your blue to white and it becomes red (with Connix), then you receive a stress, but you can do your white maneuver, because you don't have a red maneuver on your dial while stressed.

I think this discussion has brought a lot of sense and a lot of clarity to these steps. I hope FFG will simply get things officially clear, because there can be interpretation.

1 hour ago, Alpha Kenny Buddy said:

For the love of everything that is sacred, y'all stop. There are clear arguments both ways. We need a FAQ. You don't need to prove anything to anyone. Its going to be at the judges discretion until the FAQ

Fair point.

Is there any particular way to help elevate this to FFG’s attention?

3 minutes ago, CoffeeMinion said:

Fair point.

Is there any particular way to help elevate this to FFG’s attention?

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/contact/rules/

E: except it's broken, so bug the judges at major events I guess?

I posted it to the rules email the same day Istarted the thread and have not received an answer yet.

On 7/19/2019 at 4:56 PM, PsychoCC said:

Please provide that reference FAQed, as I asked earlier for this exact interaction, as based on the RR it is not your revealed move, but also this is in the activation phase, so that rule will not be in direct play.

Also back on the R2 point, the new rule is active as you are outside of the activation phase, then you look at your revealed move on your dial. R2 changing that is inferred to simplify the effect it has on your maneuver (during activation), so comparing a subjective understanding of the rules compared to what is written out with no ambiguity, seems a hard case to win if you are going RAW.

As Moser said, read through 4 pages on this thread if it’s that important to you and you will see all the references you need.

I am guessing you mean R4 as well.

Cova checks for reds, and R4 ensures that none of your basic 1s and 2s are red (barring something increasing their difficulty). If FFG wants it to work differently, they need to errata R4.

This is getting out of hand. Ask in the "Share your questions about X-Wing here" thread an wait. Arguing literally is making no difference. Until FFG responds, it's up to your TO at events. 6 pages of pointless arguing is probably not going to change anyone's minds.

Just my two cents.

Anything to add those who were at Gen Con? How was this ruled?

On 7/19/2019 at 11:18 AM, Skitch_ said:

There should be absolutely no question about how long Leia works for. FFG intends for Leia to reduce Cova's (and by extension, any pilot's) difficulty only during the activation phase and they laid out that exact scenario in their article.

" Similarly, Leia Organa removes the drawbacks from Resistance Transport Pilot Cova Nell’s ability, allowing her to roll an additional die while defending or performing a primary attack without gaining the stress token from her revealed red maneuver. "

I'll reiterate:

Based on the clarification of what revealed maneuver is in Rules Reference 1.04, Cova's ability happens outside of the ship's activation. So the scenario I see is this: Cova reveals red during activation, Leia reduces difficulty to white during activation, now in engagement phase the maneuver that was revealed is red because it "is the maneuver selected on its dial".

Adding to the weirdness, we have PZ-4CO, who reads " At the end of the Activation Phase, you may choose 1 friendly ship at range 1-2. If you do, transfer 1 calculate token to that ship. If your revealed maneuver is blue, you may transfer 1 focus token instead. " Which references the revealed maneuver at the end of the Activation Phase, but it's "at" the end, not after. So Leia reduces it, and it's still within the implied timing window everyone is rolling with right now-- but the revealed maneuver is supposedly what's on the dial.

So now we're getting to R4 interacting with PZ-4CO crew, too. It's a slightly different set of nonsense but is nebulous for the exact same reasons as Cova. Definitely a mess that needs clarification.

22 minutes ago, RampancyTW said:

Adding to the weirdness, we have PZ-4CO, who reads " At the end of the Activation Phase, you may choose 1 friendly ship at range 1-2. If you do, transfer 1 calculate token to that ship. If your revealed maneuver is blue, you may transfer 1 focus token instead. " Which references the revealed maneuver at the end of the Activation Phase, but it's "at" the end, not after. So Leia reduces it, and it's still within the implied timing window everyone is rolling with right now-- but the revealed maneuver is supposedly what's on the dial.

So now we're getting to R4 interacting with PZ-4CO crew, too. It's a slightly different set of nonsense but is nebulous for the exact same reasons as Cova. Definitely a mess that needs clarification.

I have always thought of Leia's implied timing to be while the maneuver is being executed, because she specifically references "that" maneuver. This is in contrast to R4, which affects any qualifying maneuver.

Of course that's not perfect, because it does nothing to resolve other maneuver difficulty timing questions, but if we're holding out for perfect no one's ever going to play a game of X-wing again

3 hours ago, RoockieBoy said:

Anything to add those who were at Gen Con? How was this ruled?

Listening to the most recent Fly Better podcast:

Cova gets the dice even if you Leia the red maneuver.

Cova does not get the dice if you have R4 and execute a 1 hard.

Edit: Discussion was 28 min 30 sec.

5 hours ago, Octarine-08 said:

Listening to the most recent Fly Better podcast:

Cova gets the dice even if you Leia the red maneuver.

Cova does not get the dice if you have R4 and execute a 1 hard.

Edit: Discussion was 28 min 30 sec.

To expand on this, this is what the GenCon judges have ruled, not what FBP have decided on their own.

Cova Nell references the originally revealed manoeuvre's difficulty.

Leia effects the difficulty of the manoeuvre after its been revealed, and does not change the revealed manoeuvre.

R4 Astromech is a persistent effect and does change the difficulty of the revealed manoeuvre.

And to add more confusion. German Nationals it was ruled R4 does not stop Cova from Proccing.

12 hours ago, PsychoCC said:

And to add more confusion. German Nationals it was ruled R4 does not stop Cova from Proccing.

This is getting really, really out of hand. 6 pages now.

FFG, when are you going to give us this FAQ?

Well I sent a rules question to FFG the day I first posted and still have not received a response, which is almost a month now.

つ ◕◕ ༽つ SUMMON NEW FAQ ༼ つ ◕◕ ༽つ

12 minutes ago, Ryfterek said:

つ ◕◕ ༽つ SUMMON NEW FAQ ༼ つ ◕◕ ༽つ

What do we have to sacrifice

This **** show is getting out of hand. Regardless of our individual thoughts, rules are rules, so FFG.... put us out of our collective misery. What the **** is the ruling???????

maybe all of us need to create a question on the ruling... I am sure they would love it....

1 hour ago, librarian101 said:

Well I sent a rules question to FFG the day I first posted and still have not received a response, which is almost a month now.

They haven't given individual responses to rules questions for like a year don't sweat it.

2 hours ago, librarian101 said:

Well I sent a rules question to FFG the day I first posted and still have not received a response, which is almost a month now.

Ooh, 1 month is nothing. Remember the mess with the MGT Overseer Yushyn? RAI clearly intended to work with Proach and Genesis Red. However FFG messed it up, RAW they do not work together. MGT was released 13 dec 2018, clarifications were requested (if I remember already at preview).

Most tournaments ruled it as not working. Making Quinn (not Genesis* ) sad, and Proach and Yushyn pretty DOA.

FFG finally came with a ruling 06 june 2019 as them working, so almost 6 months.

8 minutes ago, Managarmr said:

Making  Genesis sad,  and Proach and Y  ushyn pretty DOA.

You mean Quinn right?