While a lot of folks seem to be bothered by issues of balance and power with ascension, the one thing that has really crawled up my ass is a little different. The Judges main Ascended Talent really isn't one in my book and, to further bother me, they are apparently the only career that has two choices for their second Trait instead of three -I dislike that simply for symmetry reasons alone.

The main talent presented for the Judges, that being Imperial Authority, is not something unique to the Judges. An Inquisitor dressed to the nines in power-armour with no less then 49 separate =][='s adorning said armour I think would be able to command Hab-Stack Worker #26 to tackle that heretic just as well as an Judge dressed to the nines, or a Ecclessearch with a flock of cherubs singing praises to the Emperor and condemning those who turn their backs on Him, or just about any other Throne Agent for that matter. Beyond that, it's effect and utility is incredibly lack-luster especially in comparisons to the other careers. So, to fix what I perceive as a problem (or at least a major irritant for me) in regards to the Judge Career, i sat down and thought about what a Judge actually is and what it means to Judge.

The main trait of a Judge or the action of Judging is that of making a decision. That is the core of the word and the role, and that is what I went with for my revision of the Judges Ascended Traits. In my thinking, I've come up with two main Ascended Traits and can't rightfully decide which should be implemented so I'll present them both here as well as a third choice for the Judge character's second Ascended Trait.

Discerning
An Arbitrator who has risen to the august rank of Judge has spent his or her lifetime serving the Lex Imperialis and the Corpus Presidium Calixis in rooting out offenders and transgressions against Imperial Law. Rarely are such things evident on first look requiring great and taxing investigations to root out, investigations which have honed the Judges ability to recognize and know the value and role of any evidence placed before them.

A Judge may make a Challenging (+0) test using Logic, a Lore skill appropriate to the matter at hand, or, in the case of the weighing testimony, Scrutiny to determine whether the studied evidence is relevant to the matter at hand and, if so, what it's role in the matter is. If successful, the Judge is able to discern if a piece of evidence is important to the matter at hand, why it is important, and what role it plays in the matter. If the test yields three or more Degrees of Success, the Judge also gains insight as to where an additional bit of evidence important to the matter at hand will most likely be found.

Or

Weighing the Matter
A Judges decisions can set legal precedent for entire sub-sectors and alter the fate and coarse of many worlds and countless lives. As such, no Judge makes any declaration, pronouncement, or judgement lightly and without a great deal of thought and meditation about the possible repercussions of the decision.

Once per game session, the Judge may seclude him or her self to ponder, research, and/or meditate on a possible decision or course of action. They must remain undisturbed for at least 24 hours while weighing the matter, though a GM might state longer or shorter durations depending on the matter being weighed. At the end of the preset time, the Judge will have a clear idea of what the most likely outcome and ramifications of that decision or action is, both short term and long term.

And, for the third choice for Judges to chose their second trait (I have no idea how the writers could have passed this one up):

The Hammer of Witches (come on, Malius Malificarum, how could they not have jumped at this one?!)
Functions the same as Master of Mutants (should be called Hammer of Mutants now I guess) and Hammer of Heretics only it applies to witches and those who would consort with them.

from france

hi friend

as an arbites player albait a deviant one (saboteur, mortiurges, radical recongregator) i spend half time in darknes and half time in light. i agree with you on each of your point.

i just want to add another point. acension say that judges are suitable alternative to unquisitor and interrogator. but my past experience said that in a groupe if one player has power over the other player due not to his roleplaying but to the carrer/nature of his caracters he will likely abuse his position. put his career/nature as a final argument when is no one left. and then the groupes explodes.

so i think that playes even in ascension should work for a npc (likewise in rogue trader no rogues trader player).

so my points is that judges in the option that no player is allowed tobe "the guy/girl" of the party judges are lacking strong point. they are the midlles of every thing not tech priest/psyker. they are less skilled in dealing death than assassin/guard less knowledgeable than a sage les flexible than a rogue. they are jack of all trade but best no where. i was perfectly please by that before because i am comnfortable with the jack of all trade kind of career but i expexcted ascension to shine on them.

they are still lacking that litlle trick that could make them unique.

well sorry if i am not more technical than you but i am lacking time for that.

Hi Graver,

I understand the issue brought force by you. The point seems very valid and your solution looks like a good piece of fanwork. I am a little add odds with the "game effect for Logic" since Imperial Law is not about logic to me (well..not most of the time!), but never the less it comes across as a very good option.

Gregorius21778 said:

Thank you for the input! On the Logic issue, i included as Discerning is more about the gathering and evaluation of evidence then it is about understanding Imperial Law. I agree, Logic has little place in understanding or implementing Imperial Law (and most law systems from what I've seen) but it most certainly dose have a place in deciding whether such a law is broken and who is responsible. I didn't mean for Discerning to be about the law but, instead, to be about getting to the truth of a matter -after all, if a Judge can't find out who is ultimately responsible for an Imperial Crime, the perpetrator could get away with it unpunished.

Logic would play into situations in identifying and understanding the underlying importance (or knowing if it's just a cleaver red hearing planted ) of incongruencies in tithe records (or knowing that such incongruancies are really planted evidence by the real culprit to frame someone else and keep the arbiters busy while they make good on their plan, etc), understanding the importance of financial records found on the body of the planets cardinal, realizing that the assassin of Governor Brecht has to be 2 feet taller then the fella they arrested who confessed to the killing and named the Recidivist Clay as the man who hired him thus revealing that he had been conditioned to tell such a thing under torturous interrogation to throw the arbiters off track, etc.

Discerning, I guess, is basically the Talent for players who want to play the Sherlock Holmes kind of investigative arbiter who aren't all that discerning themselves ;-)

Anything that moves an Arbitrator/Judge closer to wearing a big eagle-shield nameplate with "Dredd" engraved on it merits a second and closer look.

Graver,

My personal thoughts on your proposed idea are as follow. Go with the Discerning trait, but rather than replace Imperial Authority , supplement it; otherwise you need to do some rework on Hammer of Heretics , Master of Mutants , and your proposed Hammer of Witches traits. After all, the last bit to those traits is an additional -10 to their roll to resist the judge's Imperial Authority . Over all, you've got a good work up on fixing what seems to be an oversight on someone's part. More and more I am wishing to see an Errata and FAQ for Ascension .

-=Brother Praetus=-

Brother Praetus said:

As Imperial Authority goes, it would still be kind of there, just not as a trait. It's just something that a GM should consider when the guy with the fir lined cloak and big freaking Aquila on his head starts shouting orders to the dregs in the street to obey on pain of bolter fire, not a trait that one and only one career gets. After all, commanding those who are your lessers should just be a Command check (possibly opposed with WP) or Intimidate with appropriate modifiers for who you're trying to command, who you are to them, how you're perceived, the commands given, and the way they are given. There's just no need for the Imperial Authority trait. If you're dressed to the nines and your "subjects" know who/what you are, then there should just be a healthy heaping of bonuses on that command or intimidate check -simple.

That said, I had forgotten about that -10 that the groups would get but that is an easy fix:

All members of the mentioned group (Heretics for Hammer of Heretics, Mutants for Master of Mutants, and Witches and their ilk for Hammer of Witches) receive a -10 to all Will Power tests while in the presence of the Judge as long as the Judge is in full Imperial regalia. And done.

This would make information extraction from your chosen group easier (interrogation checks would be made with a total of a +30 shift barring other circumstances added in), using Command on said group would also be a bit easier as would intimidate (as it should be!) and, finally, for the more specialized Hammer of Witches, they might be just a bit too flustered or frightened to work their powers effectively on you enabling the Judge to be the hammer that smites them a lot longer. I like the blanket -10 a lot better then just giving a bonus to a shoe-horned authority trait that can be duplicated in any number of ways... it kind of gives the Judge an interesting daemonic (Imperial actually) presence when confronting the scum they have dedicated their lives to beating down. :-)

Graver said:

A Judicial Aura of Ultimate Badass? Awesome!

"You have made some bad choices in life, pal. Only the Emperor can save you from yourself now, and he is on MY side! SUBMIT NOW!"

How about this idea:

I am the law!

The judge is the ultimate symbol of the Law of the Imperium, and all subjects of the Imperium who are in conflict with the law will be uncomfortable in the presence of a Judge. If a judge looks with suspicion on Heretics, Mutants and other law breaking citizens they must make a opposed deceive skill check against the Judge's scrutiny skill to be able to conceal that they are in fact criminals. The severity of the criminal act could provide bonuses or penalties to the deceive check, by GM discretion.

Since a judge knows the law so well, and in fact can act on it, all imperial adeptus departments always seek to offer their best cooperation possible. Once per game session a judge may automatically succeed on any one Interaction skill test in the minimum time possible, provided that the Skill Test involves any imperial apeptus group for which the Judge possesses a Peer or Good reputation Talent. The judge is considered to have rolled 01 on this test.