Idea that popped up in another thread.

• Soontir Fel
  • Predator
• The Grand Inquisitor
  • Supernatural Reflexes
  • Fire Control System
• Duchess
  • Elusive
  • Fifth Brother

That's 187 points - leaving 13 points for use on any combination of the following:

1. Initiative Bid
2. Modifications for Soontir. Afterburners seem the obvious one given the price of anything else, but on the other hand he is made of wafers.
3. Bombs for Duchess. Any of them are good, but given that she has no reload action unlike a 'proper' bomber, Mines seem more sensible since you can't reload them anyway. That said, Seismic Charges are very flexible, and the squad would probably appreciate the option of some aggressive landscape gardening.
4. Modifications for Duchess. Afterburners, a Hull Upgrade (yes, criticals, but unlike generics a bid actually matters), or Delayed Fuzes if she takes bombs.
5. Missiles for the Inquisitor. Cluster Missiles are an obvious one; essentially 4 use-for-bonus-dice-only force charges in a bin, giving him effective firepower on a par with the other two.

I reckon that (5) is probably my first choice, but I'm not dead-set on it. I've rarely ever played an aces list, so I'm happy to hear advice.

Suggestions? Comments? Insults?

That's 78 points of Grand Inquisitor ! I can't really say before trying it, but good old Vader, Whisper or an AS Redline (moving off the ace theme) look better on paper.

I think my concern with Vader is the lack of flexibility of the chassis.

The TIE/v1 lets the Inquisitor parlay a force token into a pre-move reposition and a focus token, without impacting his 'normal' action. Plus Inquisitor has a speed 1 turn and boost whilst Vader doesn't.

Worth a try...

I'd go missiles on GGI. The points are totting up there, but if you're gonna use him, may as well go full bore. Cluster or Conc, depending on your approach.

Benefit of Conc is that you can save the Force on R3 attacks, he'll be hard to hurt out there. Downside is that you have 2 wingmen who'll want to be nowhere near the victim if they're so much as singed.

I mean, ultimately, there are quite a few stronger choices for the same, or less, points but SuperGI is barnstorming fun. If that's the goal

Very close 2nd choice would be bid. Every time you come up against I5/6 with a bigger one, situation'll get sticky quick.

Soontir and Duchess are both good but need to be kept cheap in order to shine, imo. I wouldn't add much there as it dangerously reduces the bid without really adding a lot.

Incidentally, Vaders flex is not an issue. He doesn't ride with Soontir and Duchess to solo the endgame. He's a plain old beatstick, there to draw the enemy and bash their heads in. He would give the squad a better balance, since no one in there atm is a particularly heavy hitter. So if people want to focus Soontir or Duchess and get them out of the way early, they won't be massively dissuaded by your other 2 ships.

It'll be a fun, but very scary, list to fly.

I have to say, I've played a few games with GInqy and in my opinion, he's still terrible. I played him almost bare, with FCS only, and while SR does give him great action economy and relocation, he'll probably still be bad for the points.

His ability costing him force is atrocious - resonably you spend 1 force on it, 2 force on modifing the attack (or in your build, Supernatural to get focus), and he starts the next turn spent - and you better pray he dodged all the arcs, cause he's 4 HP 3 agility with no defense mods. With Supernatural, if you use it next turn, you're making a 2-dice attack with a 78-point ship. Yikes.

Also, I played with something similar - Duchess had Predator, and I had a Barrage Rocket Bomber instead of Supernatural and a bid, but I found that even moving last it's hard to have 3 basically flankers in your list - neither one of Soontir Grand Inqy nor Duchess wants to joust head-on and I found it hard to play with all 3 ships wanting to flank and dodge arcs.

I'm interested to see if Supernatural changes any of this, but I found GI already starving for force, so I didn't think of running him with it.

15 minutes ago, Rojek said:

His ability costing him force is atrocious - resonably you spend 1 force on it, 2 force on modifing the attack (or in your build, Supernatural to get focus), and he starts the next turn spent - and you better pray he dodged all the arcs, cause he's 4 HP 3 agility with no defense mods. With Supernatural, if you use it next turn, you're making a 2-dice attack with a 78-point ship. Yikes.

Hence I think @Cuz05 's suggestion of missiles is probably best.

That way, 1 force gives you the positional advantage with supernatural reflexes and a focus, target lock with your action if you need it or evade if you don't, and spend a missile charge instead. You've got a focus/rerolled 3 dice attack with only 1 force spent, which you recover in the end phase, meaning you only get 'tapped out' if you need to use his ability defensively (at which point I'll live with it because hopefully it's stopped a point of damage).

I think probably clusters; a point cheaper, an extra charge, and no awkward concussion splash on shieldless wingmen. Yes, they can't engage at range 3, but that's probably not going to come up so many times in a row that I can't consider throwing his second force charge at it if I have to; I see him far more as a knife fighter given those speed 1 blues.

36 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

So if people want to focus Soontir or Duchess and get them out of the way early, they won't be massively dissuaded by your other 2 ships.

That's my main concern about the concept; I'm more used to having a swarm to hit people over the head with. I've seen pure aces lists used but never really used them myself.

2 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

That's my main concern about the concept; I'm more used to having a swarm to hit people over the head with. I've seen pure aces lists used but never really used them myself.

As @Rojek says, for a competitive 'ace' list, 3 flanky ships is not a great balance.

You kinda need at least one tank. Basically because someone will have to take some fire in order to put some in. Otherwise you end up running away with everyone the whole time and struggling to put any damage in.

For casual play, it's fine if you're decent with them and don't butt up against something very meta. A big struggle otherwise. Or at least massively dicey. I'd like to think it can work, but I believe you'd have to be very good.

Almost all the imp ace lists that hit higher tables will have the likes of Vader, Rex, Vynder or a Lambda as the 3rd ship. Or even a couple of cheaper tanks as 3rd and 4th. They act like a fulcrum, so your aces have something to work off and your opponent has a nice big target to direct them where you want them to go.

With 3 squishy ships, it's not that hard for them to just pick one and smash it. Your problem then is working out which one they're gonna go for so you can withdraw it, putting you on the back foot from the get go.

2 squishy-ish aces, like Fenn/Guri or Obi/Ani is a different kettle of fish entirely. Imagine you're holding out 2 hands, you just sn*tch away the one they go for. With 3, they ignore the hands and kick you in the b*ll*cks instead.

- 1 GI with SNR, + 1 Rexy ... now you’re talking...

I haven't run the V1 much yet, but more because I've been sticking to Hyperspace lists.

One list that's proving to be a lot of fun is:

Vader w/FCS & Shield (78)
Fel w/Predator & Shield (63)
Stele w/FCS & Marksmanship (49)

Total 189

I'm leaving it at an 11 point bid, because locally that's usually enough to insure that these guys move last.

Hello! I need a bit help with my aces list. I have a max of 51 points for my third ship. I want a heavy hitter over anything else. What would you recommend me? Dutchess?

16 minutes ago, DexterV said:

Hello! I need a bit help with my aces list. I have a max of 51 points for my third ship. I want a heavy hitter over anything else. What would you recommend me? Dutchess?

Absolutely. With Predator and a shield upgrade.

5 minutes ago, JBFancourt said:

Absolutely. With Predator and a shield upgrade.

Yep, and Sabacc.

Stele with FCS and Marksmanship is pretty good, also.

Thank you. For the moment I will try Maarek over Duchess. My point with the Tie Striker is that it seems too fragile to me. It looks like the obvious main target :S.

38 minutes ago, DexterV said:

Thank you. For the moment I will try Maarek over Duchess. My point with the Tie Striker is that it seems too fragile to me. It looks like the obvious main target :S.

It's been my experience so far that Stele is really good in lists where there are a couple of bigger threats than he is.

If your opponent is shooting at him, they're not shooting at your bigger threats.

If your opponent is shooting at your bigger threats, they're not shooting at him, and he can really kick some butt.

1 hour ago, underling said:

It's been my experience so far that Stele is really good in lists where there are a couple of bigger threats than he is. 

to get the best mileage you want him shooting last, too, to get the most out of his ability by pummelling shieldless targets.

7 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

to get the best mileage you want him shooting last, too, to get the most out of his ability by pummelling shieldless targets.

Played four games with him (Stele) again today. For 49 points, I'm liking him more and more.

Marksmanship doesn't trigger all that much, but his ability seems to trigger once or twice a game.