3 hours ago, UnitOmega said:

So I was wrong, but my logic was sound. And the language is a bit confusing. but I got an email back anyway. FFG says you can choose basically to proc the ability by suffering Enraged again, even if you are already Enraged.

Under Persistent Effects, p. 174, you cannot "benefit (or suffer)" from multiple instances of the same persistent effect, but when this happens, you can choose which instance applies to you. So basically the Matsu ability is to "suffer" another set of Enraged and put it in the stack, you immediately ditch one because they can't overlap. Technically I think the way this is worded with the language "suffer", your GM could choose to be a meanie and say you do not actually suffer the new stack of Enraged, but that's probably a whole second set of questions about if Enraged is a beneficial or harmful effect, and is the verb "suffer" the same thing everytime, but we're not here for that. Rule Zero, DBAD, applies, so even if you're already enraged you can enrage.

Makes sense. And I think the devs made the right call here. For Matsu at least.

3 hours ago, Avatar111 said:

Makes sense. And I think the devs made the right call here. For Matsu at least.

It makes narrative sense. The heal-on-critical helps you avoid becoming incapacitated, which in theory means a matsu samurai ends a long fight covered in minor and serious wounds, bleeding, and with their armour in tatters, but never gets incapacitcated and stops fighting or get knocked unconcious.

Which sounds about right for a 'bezerker' school.

3 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

It makes narrative sense. The heal-on-critical helps you avoid becoming incapacitated, which in theory means a matsu samurai ends a long fight covered in minor and serious wounds, bleeding, and with their armour in tatters, but never gets incapacitcated and stops fighting or get knocked unconcious.

Which sounds about right for a 'bezerker' school.

Since they probably won't take critical hits because it is not a good thing for most opponents to do it. Most of the time Matsu will trigger their own ability with an unmask, or using a voir point to willingly take a crit and then become enraged and try to kill someone to gain back a void point.

An interesting ability. Fun.

On 7/11/2019 at 2:34 PM, Avatar111 said:

rank6. the game doesn't make sense at rank6. I dont think it is fair to take it into consideration when judging the school ability...

Some might say the game doesn’t really begin until rank 6. Since that’s the rank of most characters in the fictions.

58 minutes ago, AndyDay303 said:

Some might say the game doesn’t really begin until rank 6. Since that’s the rank of most characters in the fictions.

A rank 1 to 6 campaign is basically characters going from gempukku (or soon after) to top dogs.

I don't think most fiction characters are rank 6 though. Rank =/= status, look at the crown prince, or Shahai, or the Dragon Topaz Champion Yuikimi or heck, even Shiba Tsukune is most probably not rank 6 considering her age and just have overbuff political stats because of status and combat stats because of her pimpin gear.

1 hour ago, Avatar111 said:

Most of the time Matsu will trigger their own ability....using a void point to willingly take a crit.

This. It's a more useful ability than a lot of people think when facing opponents with low deadliness weapons. A large mob of ashigaru with yari, for example, can quickly rack up enough bonus successes to incapacitate a samurai quickly.

Being able to 'dump' 10+ fatigue from an incoming attack for what is in practice very little consequence is a worthwhile use of a void point anyway , but being able to burn off an extra point or two of previously-inflicted fatigue on top is great, and enraging isn't too bad a deal against better-quality minions; they don't benefit until you're incapacitated, whilst the bonus damage you can inflict from an enraged critical goes a long way to inflicting the one-hit-kills you really need to chop your way through the squad before they incapacitate you.

33 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

A rank 1 to 6 campaign is basically characters going from gempukku (or soon after) to top dogs.

I don't think most fiction characters are rank 6 though. Rank =/= status, look at the crown prince, or Shahai, or the Dragon Topaz Champion Yuikimi or heck, even Shiba Tsukune is most probably not rank 6 considering her age and just have overbuff political stats because of status and combat stats because of her pimpin gear. 

Definitely not. Relatively few 'big names' have been statted, but, for example, Agasha Sumiko has Earth 4, Martial 4, and is a very competent bushi (especially with the Ruby Champion's regalia, which is basically a one-handed naginata!), and For The Good Of The Empire would make her a pain in the backside to face in an intrigue, but she is not even slightly a peer opponent for a rank 6 PC in any way other than being Status 80 and saying " shut up, put the sword down, and do what I tell you ."

53 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Agasha Sumiko has Earth 4, Martial 4, and is a very competent bushi (especially with the Ruby Champion's regalia, which is basically a one-handed naginata!), and For The Good Of The Empire would make her a pain in the backside to face in an intrigue, but she is not even slightly a peer opponent for a rank 6 PC in any way other than being Status 80 and saying " shut up, put the sword down, and do what I tell you ."

I don't know how she got that title, so it is hard to say, but Akodo Toturi for example is probably rank 5 (or 4 at the very least) you don't just "win" an emerald champion tournament, you need to have the skills for it.

1 hour ago, Magnus Grendel said:

whilst the bonus damage you can inflict from an enraged critical goes a long way to inflicting the one-hit-kills you really need to chop your way through the squad before they incapacitate you.

the bonus Deadliness from Enraged is not the true draw here though. The fact that you GAIN a void point if you kill someone while enraged enable Matsu to kill to gain void, to use void to not get killed (and heal a little).
It is like en engine of destruction against pack of minions, especially.

Actually, thinking about it, that's not entirely fair.

She's a 'badly built' character; in that she has virtually no techniques and has at least 1 rank in every single skill. But the fact that she can match or beat a rank 1 party in basically any field they care to name is a case in point.

The average 0XP starting character has a statline of roughly rank 2 in each ring (I know that's not optimal either - you really want to be aiming for something like 3/2/2/1/1 or 3/3/1/1/1 to give you an area of competence at the expense of a defensible weak spot, but just go with it), and somewhere around 10 skill ranks, usually with a couple of rank 2-3 skills and the rest at rank 1. For the sake of argument, lets say character creation is giving you

• One rank 3 ring - 6+9=15 XP
• 2 rank 2 rings - 2x6=12 XP
• 1 Rank 3 skill - 2+4+6=12 XP
• 1 Rank 2 skill - 2+4=6 XP
• 5 Rank 1 skills - 2x5=10 XP

So a '0XP' character has essentially spent about 35XP in character creation compared to a 1/1/1/1/1 character with no skills*

Agasha sumiko has

• a 4/4/3/3/2 statline - meaning (6+9+12)x2+(6+9)x2+(6)=60 XP spent on ring increases
• Trade 1 - meaning 2x3=6 XP spent on trade skill ranks
• Artisan 2 - meaning (2+4)x4=24 XP spent on artisan skill ranks
• Scholar 3 - meaning (2+4+6)x5=60 XP spent on scholar skill ranks
• Social 3 - meaning (2+4+6)x4=48 XP spent on social skill ranks
• Martial 4 - meaning (2+4+6+8)x6=120 XP spent on martial skill ranks

That's the equivalent of 318 XP, or about 283 more than a 0XP starting character.

A rank 6 character, by comparison, has spent over 180 XP in their school curriculum.

Even halving her ring increases (since they're never 'in school' for school rank advancement), she's still nominally 'rank 6' by more than the amount of XP you have to spend to complete rank 6, so you could halve the contribution of a load of other skills and still get the same result.

The Ruby Champion is picked by the Emerald Champion. They're essentially the Emerald Champion's 'Expert Advisor' - and the criteria are to be determined by the Emerald Champion; in theory they're supposed to pick someone to complement their weaknesses - the Emerald Champion is supposed to be part criminal investigator, part high court judge, part roving imperial ambassador, part chief bodyguard, and part field marshal; in practice few samurai are competent in all these fields and the responsibility for legal expertise traditionally falls to the Ruby Champion, since without a martial tournament, there's no barrier to a scholar with little pretension to swordsmanship being granted the post.

* you begin as a normal human with no class. Ah, Munchkin.

4 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Actually, thinking about it, that's not entirely fair.

She's a 'badly built' character; in that she has virtually no techniques and has at least 1 rank in every single skill. But the fact that she can match or beat a rank 1 party in basically any field they care to name is a case in point.

The average 0XP starting character has a statline of roughly rank 2 in each ring (I know that's not optimal either - you really want to be aiming for something like 3/2/2/1/1 or 3/3/1/1/1 to give you an area of competence at the expense of a defensible weak spot, but just go with it), and somewhere around 10 skill ranks, usually with a couple of rank 2-3 skills and the rest at rank 1. For the sake of argument, lets say character creation is giving you

• One rank 3 ring - 6+9=15 XP
• 2 rank 2 rings - 2x6=12 XP
• 1 Rank 3 skill - 2+4+6=12 XP
• 1 Rank 2 skill - 2+4=6 XP
• 5 Rank 1 skills - 2x5=10 XP

So a '0XP' character has essentially spent about 35XP in character creation compared to a 1/1/1/1/1 character with no skills*

Agasha sumiko has

• a 4/4/3/3/2 statline - meaning (6+9+12)x2+(6+9)x2+(6)=60 XP spent on ring increases
• Trade 1 - meaning 2x3=6 XP spent on trade skill ranks
• Artisan 2 - meaning (2+4)x4=24 XP spent on artisan skill ranks
• Scholar 3 - meaning (2+4+6)x5=60 XP spent on scholar skill ranks
• Social 3 - meaning (2+4+6)x4=48 XP spent on social skill ranks
• Martial 4 - meaning (2+4+6+8)x6=120 XP spent on martial skill ranks

That's the equivalent of 318 XP, or about 283 more than a 0XP starting character.

A rank 6 character, by comparison, has spent over 180 XP in their school curriculum.

Even halving her ring increases (since they're never 'in school' for school rank advancement), she's still nominally 'rank 6' by more than the amount of XP you have to spend to complete rank 6, so you could halve the contribution of a load of other skills and still get the same result.

The Ruby Champion is picked by the Emerald Champion. They're essentially the Emerald Champion's 'Expert Advisor' - and the criteria are to be determined by the Emerald Champion; in theory they're supposed to pick someone to complement their weaknesses - the Emerald Champion is supposed to be part criminal investigator, part high court judge, part roving imperial ambassador, part chief bodyguard, and part field marshal; in practice few samurai are competent in all these fields and the responsibility for legal expertise traditionally falls to the Ruby Champion, since without a martial tournament, there's no barrier to a scholar with little pretension to swordsmanship being granted the post.

* you begin as a normal human with no class. Ah, Munchkin.

The fact that NPC have "all skills in a group" is something a bit fishy. Obviously, it makes the game easier to run, so I don't mind and will adjust on the fly if I believe an NPC should not have a skill in a specific group.

Considering the above, her Rings and average high skill in most categories are more representative of her rank probably. Personally I'd say she's rank 4 or even 5, very close in skill to Toturi if not equal. She is still the crown prince sensei, she can't be just a noob.

About abilities or "techniques" again, the game doesn't really want to make the NPC stat block to complicated. But I think it is fair to expect that she have many techniques and shuji.

Hunh, i didn't think of emailing directly, i thought this forum was the best way of getting answers from writers about rules. who did you email?

3 minutes ago, Scrivener Spills said:

Hunh, i didn't think of emailing directly, i thought this forum was the best way of getting answers from writers about rules. who did you email?

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/contact/rules/

Under Customer Service, rules questions. The forum is the WORST place to get in touch with the devs, FFG staff almost never comes here (though some freelancers do).

12 minutes ago, UnitOmega said:

The forum is the WORST place to get in touch with the devs, FFG staff almost never comes here (though some freelancers do).

But you do get answers from @Magnus Grendel @Avatar111 and @UnitOmega . So I'd say its worth it to post here too.

8 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

The heal-on-critical helps you avoid becoming incapacitated

I'm fairly sure it is heal- after -critical. So they do go Unconscious from the critical strike, and once it is fully resolved they heal Fatigue and might lose Incapacitated but retain Unconscious.

6 hours ago, Avatar111 said:

the bonus Deadliness from Enraged is not the true draw here though. The fact that you GAIN a void point if you kill someone while enraged enable Matsu to kill to gain void, to use void to not get killed (and heal a little).
It is like en engine of destruction against pack of minions, especially.

Enraged only gives void 1/scene. So not much of an engine.

I have a hard time believing that Toturi was leaps and bounds superior to Kisada, if he wasn’t high rank. Considering Kisada is basically the apex predator of samurai.