Heroes shouldn't have Odd number of their health value.

I'm according to some of your changes, but not most.

Yes for Fleshmonger (even If I would have him regain all his life) and Goblin witchers.
For anything else, you are too hard in your nerfs, I'm not with you on most.

Deep elves should have Grey die in Act 1 and Black die in Act 2.
Wendigos should have a big boost too in Act 2, same for rats

For Challara, I would have give an additional Grey defense die to Brightblaze in Act 2

4 hours ago, rugal said:

Heroes shouldn't have Odd number of their health value.

Why not?

4 hours ago, rugal said:

Deep elves should have Grey die in Act 1 and Black die in Act 2.

Improving her defense die will both increase their longevity and make the Riposte deal more damage. I don't know if they need that much help, so I went with Health.

4 hours ago, rugal said:

For Challara, I would have give an additional Grey defense die to Brightblaze in Act 2

If anything, I would lower Brightblaze's stats in Act 1 and make them what they are normally in Act 2. Multiple additional attack actions and something that absorbs multiple attacks is better than most heroic abilities in the game.

Thanks for reviewing, even if you don't agree 😉

If all heroes have a even numéro of life is a logical choice. Except 1 item all of thoses give 2hp or 4hp

Deep elves indeed needs that buff. They are too weak. Monsters with stealhy are underestimated

4 hours ago, rugal said:

If all heroes have a even numéro of life is a logical choice. Except 1 item all of thoses give 2hp or 4hp

There is a prior precedent set that in Descent all of the heroes had even numbers for health. However, there is no need for this to be the case, and allowing odd numbers enables finer balance tuning.

And some items, like Leather Armor, give +1 health, which will result in odd numbers of max health even in the unmodded game.

Theses are the balance I use for most.

I've played all those like it was printed, and I tried many balance before theses.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/wl5yu7yv5dkfinv/AACVTeOSZ3l_4C68NETFy4RBa?dl=0

Maybe a few needs more (and a few needs a bit more tests). Goblins witchers and Fire Imps are really weak and still needs buffs. No sure for others.

Added comments for the changes and bandits

Is it intended that your version of "Vigor" allow heroes to recovers from anywhere on the map, even if defeated ?

6 minutes ago, rugal said:

Is it intended that your version of "Vigor" allow heroes to recovers from anywhere on the map, even if defeated ?

Yipes! No, I hadn't thought about that interpretation. Excellent point... It wasn't intentional... Should be 'Each hero that is not knocked out recovers 1 heart and 1 fatigue'.

I'll update the card this weekend. Guess I'll need to get it reprinted too at some point 😪

Just now, Charmy said:

Yipes! No, I hadn't thought about that interpretation. Excellent point... It wasn't intentional... Should be 'Each hero that is not knocked out recovers 1 heart and 1 fatigue'.

I wished to add comments on your document, but it appears I can't.
If I could, we could discuss this to find the "perfect" balance

On 8/29/2019 at 7:03 PM, rugal said:

I wished to add comments on your document, but it appears I can't.
If I could, we could discuss this to find the "perfect" balance

Hey Rugal,

Here is the balance patch doc if you'd like to add your own comments/notes to it. I made some adjustments to the text to make them fit when I created the actual cards, but this should be mostly up to date.

I also updated Spiritspeaker's Vigor with the new text. Thanks again for catching that.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/17ivMZ4ZGe2XgcG4BpZRWMBgKjC4j78HPfGZXKSN8U8s/edit?usp=sharing

13 hours ago, Charmy said:

Hey Rugal,

Here is the balance patch doc if you'd like to add your own comments/notes to it. I made some adjustments to the text to make them fit when I created the actual cards, but this should be mostly up to date.

I also updated Spiritspeaker's Vigor with the new text. Thanks again for catching that.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/17ivMZ4ZGe2XgcG4BpZRWMBgKjC4j78HPfGZXKSN8U8s/edit?usp=sharing

Thanks ! Did my best to bring the better I could with my no enough english level

Many lieutenants should be changed too

- Merrick is really fragile, his "aftershock" ability is almost useless and he dies too easily, the test should be removed

- Eliza can suck life but never hit hard enough to do so, or killed

- Splig always fails his test to avoid attack and can only promote monsters if the figure is avalaible. He should have a boost from monsters near him for his test like removing 1 shield of each monster adjacent to him and the promote should work whatever the figure is avalaible or not (with a specific token, limited to once per group for example)

- Valyndra's test for Hoarder should be removed

Many relics should be changed too

- "Aurium mail" is far too strong for heroes. Should be nerfed from Black die to Grey die, and when exhausted, before rolling defense dice, replace the Grey defense die with a Black one. Strong but no more broken.

- "Staff of Shadows" should be a universal relic, because, having the relic, a lieutenant, discarding a card, to force a reroll or draw a card seems too much to me

- Same of "Heart of the wild", since it can be used only once per quest, not on lieutenant, and you needs one for this is too much of conditions for a effect nothing like a broken one, maybe it can be refreshed if you lose a lieutenant

- Taksmaster's ring should not have the "surge". The lieutenant gains 2 movement point for each attack he performs. If not, there is no point to give him this relic when you have choice among all others, all of them far better

- Locking the "Shadow rune" to Zachareth is like a relic is useless for the Overlord, and since it is already hard to have them, to use them because lieutenant are not oftenly avalaible, and can be desactivated from one encounter to another, this is too hard

- "The tome of the five lies" is not so good. It is a small bonus, sometimes you can try, but since the cards you have in hand and shuffled back in the deck you can draw them back and then, the relic has no use. Many of the other relics (especially manor of ravens) are far better to this one. Should be changed to "you can put thoses card aside, draw as many cards and shuffle them back to the Overlord deck" and maybe it can allow you to draw 1 more card one per quest the first time a hero is defeated, so the relic would have some use

- "The shiled of the dark god" is not so strong too. all other shield give a defense (a shield when exhausted, and a die in Act 2), and "sacrifying" a hand to only reroll is not enough. Maybe adding a brown die ? or a shield when exhausted in addition to the reroll and keeping the better results ?

- Mending talisman should be limited to 5 spaces, or maybe knowledge ? Removing a condition and healing a hero anywhere on the map, even if defeated, is far too strong

- Maybe "Gauntlet of power" should be limited to the hero/lieutenant's Might too ?


Some quest too

Giving 1 xp for heroes on the Act 2 of Valyndra's rumor is absurd. If played on Mists + chains, the heroes can be on the finale with 10 x) !

Rewards should be changed too so the Overlord can gain something from playing the quests

Charmy, I like what I see. Few tidbits:

No exhaustion on exploding rune? Would have bet any amount of money I'd see that.

Wayfarer vs Cacophony is a blowout no? Maybe the effect could target other characters to move one space?

I wouldn't leave Steel Greatsword and Ironbound Glaive the same price.

I can see with the updated curse why you would strip Obsidian Scale Mail of its regen effects. It's really weird that curse didn't act like that already. Hard to tell if this balances out.

Rune Plate, yes. Yes.

You don't wanna bump shields up a bit?

Bone and Winged Blade. I get it, they're strong. But there's just not many viable act II one handed weapons 😕

Geomancer looks playable now!

For The Cause still looks like a 2xp skill trapped in a 3xp skill. I might even motion to swap For The Cause with Stoic Resolve. Or maybe give FTC a passive Grey.

Overall, it looks like we are very much of the same mind about some things. However, I believe you have much more OL style play experience than me, whereas I'm a solo player. So perspective may be different on some things.

On 9/6/2019 at 3:05 PM, Jubez187 said:

Charmy, I like what I see. Few tidbits:

No exhaustion on exploding rune? Would have bet any amount of money I'd see that.

Hey Jubez,

Thanks for checking it out! I am working on some more tweaks based on player feedback and hope to have a "MakePlayingCards.com" link available in the future to allow people to print their own copy of the new class cards and item cards for those interested. The version I printed for myself turned out fairly well, although there is a small blue line on the backs of the cards I'd like to work out somehow for the next printing.

On 9/6/2019 at 3:05 PM, Jubez187 said:

No exhaustion on exploding rune? Would have bet any amount of money I'd see that.

I wanted to keep the Runemaster being the 'king of blast' as part of his identity, so I took a different tack on multi-damage moves in general by trying out the "Road to Legend" variation, but affecting both sides (Multi-target attacks deal full damage to one target and half damage (rounded up) to all other targets.) I also buffed most of the other sources of multi-target damage in other Mages to make their power more on par with the Runemaster.

On 9/6/2019 at 3:05 PM, Jubez187 said:

Wayfarer vs Cacophony is a blowout no? Maybe the effect could target other characters to move one space?

Really? I think Wayfarer is pretty great. The reduced cost on most song abilities is also an indirect buff to this card, because you can change between songs much more easily now.

On 9/6/2019 at 3:05 PM, Jubez187 said:

I wouldn't leave Steel Greatsword and Ironbound Glaive the same price.

Agreed! Their costs should be flipped, at the very least. I would even consider Steel Greatsword being 150, given how lackluster it is. I should do another pass on the item deck, especially costs of items. I mostly just focused on the major outliers last time.

On 9/6/2019 at 3:05 PM, Jubez187 said:

I can see with the updated curse why you would strip Obsidian Scale Mail of its regen effects. It's really weird that curse didn't act like that already. Hard to tell if this balances out.

Yeah, the regen effect was just crazy and the armor felt really unfair to play against before.

On 9/6/2019 at 3:05 PM, Jubez187 said:

You don't wanna bump shields up a bit?

Most shields are pretty good... especially shields like the Horned Shield and Ironbound Shield.

On 9/6/2019 at 3:05 PM, Jubez187 said:

Bone and Winged Blade. I get it, they're strong. But there's just not many viable act II one handed weapons 😕

Yeah, but those ones felt like they were as good as two handed weapons, but without the hand restriction.

On 9/6/2019 at 3:05 PM, Jubez187 said:

For The Cause still looks like a 2xp skill trapped in a 3xp skill. I might even motion to swap For The Cause with Stoic Resolve. Or maybe give FTC a passive Grey.

Giving FTC a passive grey is an interesting idea that just might push it into viable territory. It does feel pretty 'meh' for a 3xp skill, for sure, even with the buffs, which goes to show just how bad it was originally...

On 9/6/2019 at 3:05 PM, Jubez187 said:

Overall, it looks like we are very much of the same mind about some things. However, I believe you have much more OL style play experience than me, whereas I'm a solo player. So perspective may be different on some things.

I play solo a lot too, because there aren't always people on hand to playtest with.

Thanks again for your insights! They are very appreciated.

Any updates on all of this work?

...also, your crossbow card has an expansion icon, though it's a base game item.

Appreciate all that you've put into this!

On 4/30/2020 at 6:19 PM, wyatt606 said:

Any updates on all of this work?

...also, your crossbow card has an expansion icon, though it's a base game item.

Appreciate all that you've put into this!

Hi wyatt! Any further work on this has been put on hiatus since I'm unable to test the game with others during this pandemic situation where I can't do board game meetups...

Oh, and great catch on the Crossbow. I thought for the longest time this was a Labyrinth of Ruin item! Probably because its balance seems off compared to other Base set stuff...

Hey there, I received Lost Legends today, and once I read "All Knowing" I immediately got triggered and turned to Google. That's how I ran into this thread.

Did Charmy or anyone else ever end up making a set for MakePlayingCards.com? Would love to print/buy a complete set of rebalanced cards!

On 5/2/2020 at 5:50 PM, Charmy said:

Hi wyatt! Any further work on this has been put on hiatus since I'm unable to test the game with others during this pandemic situation where I can't do board game meetups...

Oh, and great catch on the Crossbow. I thought for the longest time this was a Labyrinth of Ruin item! Probably because its balance seems off compared to other Base set stuff...

On 6/26/2020 at 1:23 AM, redbull666 said:

Hey there, I received Lost Legends today, and once I read "All Knowing" I immediately got triggered and turned to Google. That's how I ran into this thread.

Did Charmy or anyone else ever end up making a set for MakePlayingCards.com? Would love to print/buy a complete set of rebalanced cards!

Hi there redbull666,

Thanks for your interest! I'll try to get you a link to the "MakePlayingCards.com" version so you can print it out yourself. I need to wait for an 'approval' period before I can make the project shareable it seems.

I've updated the Crossbow card in the project and in my Dropbox to remove the erroneous expansion symbol as well.

Hi redbull666,

The design was approved, so I've sent you a DM with the MakePlayingCards link to the patch.
If anyone else wants the link to print out the patch, I'm happy to send it to you. Just drop me a line.