17 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

Brainstorm time!

So in First Edition I had a lot of success with 4 Alphas + a shuttle with Fleet Officer. The focus tokens granted by Fleet Officer allowed the lead interceptors to survive a surprising amount of attacks. What I quickly realized was that this squad didn't care much about arc dodging. With the extra tokens, Alpha Sq. Pilots become good jousters . Weird, right?

So with the idea that they can perform as jousters, what options do we have for feeding them more tokens? The First Order gets Hux, and I find myself eyeing that card with jealousy. Are there any ways for the Empire to give multiple coordinates or tokens out to the Alphas?

I've tried iterations on this over and over. My latest attempt was 3x Saber with Howl + Iden. Free rerolls, Howl gets to live quite a while, then the Sabers can clean up what's left. You'd think that it would pack a punch, wouldn't you?

Of course, my testing ground is against 5 Cartel Marauders with Dead Man's Switch in Fly Casual, so you can imagine how that went. AOE damage just destroys it, and suddenly the once-viable tactic of swooping in to catch that R1 initiative kill just becomes suicide. I landed one kill that lost me 4hp, which was over 30% of my total health at the time. Also, the irony of having high initiative is that you never know if you should use your focus on attack or defense. If you use it on attack, you always roll 3 green eyeballs. If you save it, you roll nats or blanks. At least low-I ships know for absolute certain whether they can splurge on the attack.

The biggest problem is that (absent a token stack) strikers will always do what interceptors do, but better and for the same cost. Token stacks are hard to come by these days, especially on generics. You pretty much can't get them except with coordinate, and the Empire's cheapest coordinate costs 41 points and is red.

3 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Maybe  a list of Howl/Ide  n/3x Saber

I always think such a combo denies the Interceptors strengths - better dial and autothusters are basically turned off if you want to stay in Howlrunner range. ☹️

2 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:

In  an epic world, I woul  d think the I4 generics would be pretty good. 

Experience wise I can only speak for first edition PS6 Sabres in Epic. I found them useful as expendable missiles docked on a Gozanti until they could be unloaded at the right moment. Once they left the protection of the Gozanti... bye bye. Otherwise I found them pretty useless even with first edition Autothrusters and would much rather have taken Advanced with Accuracy Corrector or Strikers with Lightweight Frame. Unless second edition Epic brings additional rules I’d see my ship preferences staying the same. As far as I’m concerned Interceptors in X-Wing just don’t live up to the swarm formations we saw in Return of the Jedi and are treated as an ace platform. Mind you they were pretty much wiped out at Endor so maybe it is intentionally thematic? 😂

Totally different kind of support, but what about something like this? I'm concerned because I can't think of any way to adequately punish the double-stress that Sloane causes, except with the free re-rolls, and you're still going down from 4 ships to 0 in short order.

Alpha Squadron Pilot (34)

Alpha Squadron Pilot (34)

Alpha Squadron Pilot (34)

Rear Admiral Chiraneau (76)
Emperor Palpatine (11)
Admiral Sloane (9)

Total: 198

The biggest advantage is that RAC gets offense from his defense anyway, so he'll take pretty long to burn down for a Sloane Carrier. But still you're better off taking Strikers than interceptors. The only advantage to the interceptor is the 3 green dice, which are really tough to leverage without a token stack or... gas clouds?

Or maybe the answer is a more diversified approach. If the Planetary Sentinel is strictly better than the Alpha, embrace that, but leverage what the Sabers have to offer in the mid-late game:

Saber Squadron Ace (40)

Saber Squadron Ace (40)

Planetary Sentinel (34)

Planetary Sentinel (34)

Scarif Base Pilot (41)
Admiral Sloane (9)

Total: 198

2-pt bid against I4 and pray you don't face any I5-6 with more than 2-3 ships. You can lock down an ace or two with 2 turns of double-stress and re-rolls, but as ever, the Sloane carrier will burn down fast . This would require some masterful play to use effectively, but maybe it's up for the challenge?

16 minutes ago, Sasajak said:

As far as I’m concerned Interceptors in X-Wing just don’t live up to the swarm formations we saw in Return of the Jedi and are treated as an ace platform.

This is what makes me the saddest, and is also why I've always been adamant about interceptor generics (even from the day 2.0 was announced, you can go back and see it; I got really hopeful). I've always wanted to fly interceptor swarms, but they just don't have the pricing or tricks to make it worthwhile, even in most casual games. If you get a good matchup you can do really well. If you don't, it just feels bad for the full 20 minutes it takes to get tabled.

8x ESC vultures means the devs can't be that hardline about more than 5 3-attack weapons. Vulture swarms aren't even doing all that well anyway. The Alpha interceptor is basically just the same, except it costs exactly 10 points more. Both have a 3-attack, both get to use it once on average, both have three hull and rely on naked green dice for their survival. Autothrusters and the best dial in the game doesn't change the dynamics of a joust, and I1 can't do much but joust.

16 minutes ago, Sasajak said:

Experience wise I can only speak for first edition PS6 Sabres in Epic. I found them useful as expendable missiles docked on a Gozanti until they could be unloaded at the right moment.

This so much! I did it with Alphas, but it was the same effect. Good times. Can't wait to do it again!

1 hour ago, GreenDragoon said:

Soontir and "I already have Soontir, but for some strange reason I believe that this i5 or i4 pilot is my next best competitive option" would make a great duo.

If you mean Turr Phennir, then just say Turr Phennir.

Because otherwise you are just proving my point.

44 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

I've always wanted to fly interceptor swarms, but they just don't have the pricing or tricks to make it worthwhile, even in most casual games.

Yeah, this has always been it for me. In 1.0 I fell back on the TAP because it felt sorta like flying the Squint, but it could actually manage to pull it's weight in Epic.

53 minutes ago, Sasajak said:

As far as I’m concerned Interceptors in X-Wing just don’t live up to the swarm formations we saw in Return of the Jedi and are treated as an ace platform.

Which might be fine, if there were more than 2 aces to choose from--one of which is the same Init as choosing the generic.

*****

I will say that this is one time where someone laments a chassis and there is not a super strong push back from the community about "actually, I use this." Which, IHMO, is noteworthy.

29 minutes ago, Sasajak said:

As far as I’m concerned Interceptors in X-Wing just don’t live up to the swarm formations we saw in Return of the Jedi and are treated as an ace platform. Mind you they were pretty much wiped out at Endor so maybe it is intentionally thematic? 😂

Let's be real, X wing's scale is really small compared to what you see in the movies.

X wing is flight element scale where you only have a couple flights on each side at once.

You have to go epic if you even want to get to Squadron scale. Even that only has the only the lightest of capital ships. We can't even touch iconic ships like the Nebulon B or smaller Star Destroyer.

The scale for those set piece battles is Armada, and just barely.

3 hours ago, Sasajak said:

would much rather have taken Advanced with Accuracy Corrector

So much memories for me ! I always take Tempest with Accuracy Corrector and Black Squadron with crackshot to protect my epic ship

The Striker is more cost-efficient & consistent, and the Interceptor more than any other chassis really got the short end of the dial inflation stick. The chief advantage of the old agile fighters was that their dial was an order of magnitude better than other dials; now everyone has a super-dial (...except, inexplicably, the Defender still has a garbage dial) and so what used to be a great dial looks kind of meh.

interceptors also still suffer from the same problem they've always had (up until 1.0 Autothrusters, anyway): they get deleted with a single bad die roll when attacked with a 3 dice primary at R2 or R3, and that is simply not acceptable on such an expensive chassis.

My 23 point Academy TIE fighter eats a bad die roll and is vaporized before she can shoot? Fine, whatever; I have 4-5 more of them. My 34 point Alpha Interceptor eats the same bad die roll? That's a huge blow to my list's effectiveness. Or I can take a Striker and shrug at bad die rolls because they'll survive a blank out (most of the time) from a 3 dice primary.

The problem worsens when you consider that part of the premium you're paying for an Alpha is that they have 2 mod slots and so you're naturally left wanting to use those. Stick Afterburner and Baffle in there, and now the blank out costs you 42 points (...and baffle complicates this further, because it is a mod that becomes shut off on an Interceptor after just two face down damage cards have been dealt to it). You could always protect against the blank out scenario with a Hull Upgrade, but now you're adding a 7 point premium on top of an already over-priced vehicle...

They need a pretty severe point discount to be in line with other options. Probably in the neighborhood of 6-7~ or so points.

6 hours ago, Octarine-08 said:

Let's  be real, X  wing's scale is really small compared to what you see in the movi  e  s.  

Well yes it’s about 270 times smaller 😉

I get a swarmy feel with the TIE/ln and I really don’t care is one blows up. The TIE/in feels too precious and too fragile to treat in a similar way. You can get the feel of a ship right without having to exactly replicate the numbers. Thematically the Interceptor was designed to replace the Fighter. I don’t get that vibe in X-Wing at all. Instead they’ve gone for an ace platform (with two aces 😂 ; thanks for reminding me @Darth Meanie ). In Armada they feel so right. While still fragile they have the Swarm and, most importantly, Counter. They make good swarms, have a nasty counter-attack and also have great aces.

6 hours ago, Parakitor said:

This so much! I did it with Alphas, but it was the same effect. Good times. Can't wait to do it again!

The choice was tough. Alphas with Requiem to launch 2 at PS8 or Sabres with Vector to launch all 4 at once. 😃

Depending of the format :

For Extended : https://raithos.github.io/?f=Galactic Empire&d=v8ZsZ200Z166XWWW14WWY182XWY182XWY229XY229XY221X&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

Sai will be always for me a nice support ship, coordonate => give a focus => have a focus so you fell that your action it's not wasted, more wi th the Interceptor ability you can Evade, have a focus and barrel roll or boost.

For Hyperspace : https://raithos.github.io/?f=Galactic Empire&d=v8ZhZ200Z182XWY182XWY217X132WY221XY229XY182XW&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

Howlrunner for the reroll and give Ps 5, I would like to put Valen with Squad Leader but cost too much. Wampa to add more attack.

Maybe bringing Kagi along could work? You'll get to evade, boost and/or roll at I4 with your I1 ship, and suck up all the locks to protect them to boot. Vader or Palpatine crew to remove tokens or improve rolls.

15 hours ago, millertime059 said:

Alpha’s are stuck on ice, purely because the Planetary Sentinel is a better buy at the same price point. They really could have used a drop to 33 and been fine.

I don't know; a 6-ship 'true' heavy swarm is something that FFG seem leery of given that someone said they claimed on the stream they were considering dropping TIE/sk in points but also limiting them to 5 ships.

If anyone deserves it, it's the Alpha Squadron Pilot, though.

12 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

I mean, we totally can turn this into yet another thread of generics vs uniques. But I was under the impression that it wasn't OPs question or point, so I don't see why it turned there.

Ultimately, taking @GreenDragoon 's advice, yes, the interceptor does okay, but only really as Soontir Fel. Why anyone local to you isn't using him, I can't comment. He's a really good ship - fragile as buggery but slippery enough to make it count; and with Predator he's only 55 points, enough to still be (more or less) expendable, but if he can centreline someone he can have focus + evade + attack reroll, which is pretty impressive.

It does indeed die quickly, though - you can arc dodge but concentrated fire is fatal.

11 hours ago, Bucknife said:

Coincidentally, this also makes the I1 Alphas arguably the best small base blockers in the game...

EDIT:

Nevermind.... An Academy with Afterburners can do the same thing twice a game for only 29 points instead of 34.

I think I'd take the Academy, as much as I'd hope to get that glorious, one time, four dice range one with my Alpha... The point is to block and break.

It's a cross-faction issue but I'd probably argue for the Zealous Recruit. More expensive but can actually survive doing it.

Alphas are good for blocking with boost/autothrusters/roll (or vice-versa) though.

10 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Also Strikers!

They don't go quite as far, but they still go pretty fast!

It's the flexibility in speed, rather than straight speed, which makes a good blocker, though. Strikers are amazing, but lacking the ability to go straight into (for example) speed 1 turn plus roll really limits their options to stay in a 'scrum' several turns in a row.

11 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

At least Sabers can try to play that game. 40 points means they're tricky to fit in a list with any kind of bid left, which means you're even moving before the other I4s (the much-derided Black Squadron Ace is a better buy because it moves in the same time frame but still gets crack shot).

You do get an extra ship compared to the T-70s, though.

Personally I do not agree with the Alpha being a great blocker. Sure it's great at getting into a blocking position BUT to be a good blocker you either need to be

A: cheap enough to just throw away

B: Beefy enough to not just melt because you just put yourself right in front of the rest of the enemies have no defensive mods.

And the Alpha squadron is too expensive for A and too squishy for B.

4x Alpha Squadron Pilots and a Sloane OGP is strong.

It might not be competitive, and I don't know if it's ever going to win tournaments but for your average game, it's very capable if flown well.

I've played against it a couple of times and struggled if my list isn't super competitive itself. Pretty much any Rebel list I've flown against it that isn't a 4 ship list has struggled, it's a lot of dice to joust against. And honestly even three ship Imperial aces can have difficulty. Those five arcs can cast a pretty wide net if you realise your best plan isn't to joust as a block. You can definitely grind down even a Vader/Fel list if you set up right. That double stress for the first kill can be a strong control factor (especially against Fel).

Since the points nudges, you can also fit Seventh Sister as additional crew. I've not run the list myself, but I am getting the urge to give it a go. Either she just gives the OGP a bit of action economy, or she can combo very strongly with Sloane in a couple of specific situations (a free jam token at the right time against the right TIE Phantom can be huge). I'm also tempted to try Ciena Ree instead of Seventh Sister, as that leaves enough points to take ST-321 - which I'm honestly surprised more people don't talk about, it makes your space cow much harder to ignore for only 4 points. I'm just not sure if Ciena herself is worth it, even if she is capable of some real bull**** with Interceptors.

And if Targeting Computer comes in at 2 points, you can upgrade to Jendon and run TC on all four Alphas. I suspect FFG might cost it so that's just not quite possible, but if it is 2 points, I think this list could get a whole lot stronger.

36 minutes ago, GuacCousteau said:

I'm also tempted to try Ciena Ree instead of Seventh Sister, as that leaves enough points to take ST-321 - which I'm honestly surprised more people don't talk about, it makes your space cow much harder to ignore for only 4 points. I'm just not sure if Ciena herself is worth it, even if she is capable of some real bull**** with Interceptors.

Ciena + ST-321 is a brutal combination. The shuttle essentially gets a free co-ordinate (since you get your lock at the same time, and get to lock 'from' the co-ordinated ship), and the rubbish you can pull with turning your interceptors is ridiculous, especially if followed with a blue hard turn.

Again; I'm going to agree with a lot of posts above - strikers are an issue. I don't think they're too good but they do (especially the generics) show up interceptors in their intended role.

Looking at the Saber Squadron Ace, the problem is that - at least for the first one you include - you've got to argue why you didn't find 2 points to take Duchess......

• Initiative 5 instead of 4
• Adaptive ailerons plus Duchess' ability are essentially autothrusters except
  • You can 'partially' complete the boost
  • You can 'boost' onto obstacles (if it's safe-ish, like gas clouds or debris)
  • You 'boost' before moving
  • You can 'boost' when stressed
• The only downside is that you can't use them for barrel rolls.

I think that when we see the Interceptor Expansion we might (give or take card packs) see Interceptor Pilots for Ciena Rees and Vult Skerris, and if they get I5 they might be worth a look.

• If Ciena has a pilot ability equivalent to her crew ability (when you perform a boost or barrel roll, rotate 90' for.....probably not stress because autothrusters, so maybe strain ?) that could be mental, and similar to Dalan Oberos.
• Skerris is a good pilot one on one and probably justifies I5 (he is an academy instructor) but every time he loses it's because he gets target fixated on someone and doesn't pay attention to his surroundings (diving too deep into the nebula after the better-shielded ghost, focusing on Ezra's Y-wing and ignoring Dutch, focusing on Hera and walking into the Chimera's flak pattern). I'm not sure how you'd reflect that in a pilot ability aside from something to do with target locks (which the TIE interceptor doesn't have). Maybe a condition? Something which makes you much better against a nominated target but vulnerable to others?

I also wonder if we're ever likely to see the Royal Guard pilots back. I can't recall in the current lore if royal guard are force sensitive or not.

If they are, I wonder if making them an I4 or I5, 1 force pilot might work? I'd consider not giving them access to force powers (precedent set by lil' annie) as you don't want to introduce a non-limited mini-kylo.

17 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Again; I'm going to agree with a lot of posts above - strikers are an issue. I don't think they're too good but they do (especially the generics) show up interceptors in their intended role.

Yep, Strikers are a real problem for the Interceptor.

The list above just isn't as good as the very similar Vizier with Sloane + 3 named Strikers. Yes, you lose a ship and its 3 dice arc, but you basically make up for it with ships that are harder to one shot in general, a ship that straight up tanks torpedoes or other high damage attacks and a ship that starts off a 4 dice primary.

At this point, I'm tempted to see if I can find someone willing to run against a 6xAlpha list, just to experiment to see how broken it could be. I don't think it'll be that bad.

46 minutes ago, GuacCousteau said:

It might not be competitive, and I don't know if it's ever going to win tournaments but for your average game, it's very capable if flown well.

For most of the ships folks trash on the Forums, there tends to be some list like this. Not a top-tables-large-tournaments list, but a fine and reasonable list of at least average power level. That feels good to me. If someone wants to fly an Interceptor or Defender or whatever because it's just a ship they like, there usually exist capable-enough builds.

26 minutes ago, GuacCousteau said:

At this point, I'm tempted to see if I can find someone willing to run against a 6xAlpha list, just to experiment to see how broken it could be. I don't think it'll be that bad.

6 Alpha is both proven to be reasonable, but also proven to be pointless. 5x Alpha + Wampa is so close. This both proves that 33 point Alphas wouldn't be broken, but also proves that 33 point Alphas are kind of unnecessary.

I guess it makes an Alpha a better filler ship. The buffs to the TIE/sf probably matter a lot more for lists with fewer than 6 TIE/sf (even if I'm greatly interested in the Hex-F).

52 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

• If Ciena has a pilot ability equivalent to her crew ability (when you perform a boost or barrel roll, rotate 90' for.....probably not stress because autothrusters, so maybe strain ?) that could be mental, and similar to Dalan Oberos.
• Skerris is a good pilot one on one and probably justifies I5 (he is an academy instructor) but every time he loses it's because he gets target fixated on someone and doesn't pay attention to his surroundings (diving too deep into the nebula after the better-shielded ghost, focusing on Ezra's Y-wing and ignoring Dutch, focusing on Hera and walking into the Chimera's flak pattern). I'm not sure how you'd reflect that in a pilot ability aside from something to do with target locks (which the TIE interceptor doesn't have). Maybe a condition? Something which makes you much better against a nominated target but vulnerable to others?

I like these ideas; an alternative could be Ciena having recurring charges to power her ability, which could be used even on a red boost/barrel roll. The question would then become how many charges to activate it?

Skerris's ability running as a condition is likewise marvellous. Maybe something along the lines of getting rerolls against the selected vessel (both while attacking it, and defending against it), with the penalty of *having* to attack that target when possible, and maybe some penalty to his defence when attacked by something else (attacker can make you reroll one defence die?).

20 hours ago, millertime059 said:

...prone to unlucky dice yes, but great ...

Soontir in a nut shell.

5 minutes ago, AceDogbert said:

Skerris's ability running as a condition is likewise marvellous. Maybe something along the lines of getting rerolls against the selected vessel (both while attacking it, and defending against it), with the penalty of *having* to attack that target when possible, and maybe some penalty to his defence when attacked by something else (attacker can make you reroll one defence die?).

Giving him a significant dice bonus against the 'right' target and a dice penalty against 'everyone else' is kind of harsh (very few pilot abilities make you worse) but if he's getting I5 and a really powerful pilot ability for cheap I think people would be prepared to consider it.

Having to shoot a given target might be redundant. If you've got two targets in range but a significant bonus to your attack dice against one of them, the choice is pretty much made for you, so it doesn't feel like it's worth the text space to make the rules hoof you in the unmentionables on the rare occasion that you'd still rather go for target #2.

Rerolls are a decent call, because the TIE interceptor rarely gets them.

Getting a decent attack bonus against your Target Fixation target at a cost of a defence penalty against anyone else makes a degree of sense. But it shouldn't be too harsh - the TIE interceptor isn't tough enough to tolerate a major weakening of its defences! - and we should probably bear in mind that Vult Skerris will probably appear in the TIE defender at some point, too.

1 minute ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Giving him a significant dice bonus against the 'right' target and a dice penalty against 'everyone else' is kind of harsh (very few pilot abilities make you worse) but if he's getting I5 and a really powerful pilot ability for cheap I think people would be prepared to consider it.

Having to shoot a given target might be redundant. If you've got two targets in range but a significant bonus to your attack dice against one of them, the choice is pretty much made for you, so it doesn't feel like it's worth the text space to make the rules hoof you in the unmentionables on the rare occasion that you'd still rather go for target #2.

Rerolls are a decent call, because the TIE interceptor rarely gets them.

Getting a decent attack bonus against your Target Fixation target at a cost of a defence penalty against anyone else makes a degree of sense. But it shouldn't be too harsh - the TIE interceptor isn't tough enough to tolerate a major weakening of its defences! - and we should probably bear in mind that Vult Skerris will probably appear in the TIE defender at some point, too.

I could see several situations when you might really, really prefer to shoot at something other than the designated target; your opponent may have pushed another of their ships into range one to attack Vult while his chosen target is at range three behind a glass cloud with a token stack, there may be a hostile vessel which the rest of your list has crippled but needs to be polished off before it can engage/regen during the next round etc.

You are however right that putting such a rule on a condition card (or on Vult's card itself) would make it too crowded, so keeping it simple(r) is a good way forward. As for the defence penalty, rerolling a single defence die is suitably punishing. Any more would be a death sentence.

Hopefully in the much coveted 'Card Packs' we might see some new Pilots... for the Interceptor included.

8 hours ago, Arkanta974 said:

Depending of the format :

For Extended : https://raithos.github.io/?f=Galactic Empire&d=v8ZsZ200Z166XWWW14WWY182XWY182XWY229XY229XY221X&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

Sai will be always for me a nice support ship, coordonate => give a focus => have a focus so you fell that your action it's not wasted, more wi th the Interceptor ability you can Evade, have a focus and barrel roll or boost.

For Hyperspace : https://raithos.github.io/?f=Galactic Empire&d=v8ZhZ200Z182XWY182XWY217X132WY221XY229XY182XW&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

Howlrunner for the reroll and give Ps 5, I would like to put Valen with Squad Leader but cost too much. Wampa to add more attack.

I find it ironic that, for your Interceptor-based lists:

The first has more support ships than actual Interceptors, and

The second needs to used a weaker ship to allow the high-performance ship to perform.

I'm beginning to think the Interceptor simply needs to get it's aces back.