3-5x (preferably 4x) same-ships lists with repo econ are my jam. There's a few options out there (Starvipers, Gunboats) but Jedi/Aethersprites are my main focus atm. The one HT I was able to go to and not get sick, I went 4-1 with trip I4 7B/R2, but that list is dead an buried. Will quad CLT take its place?

About 10 games before points, 6 since points, and about 20 against the Fly Casual AI over the weekend, heres where I'm at:

Obi/CLT
Mace/Sense/CLT
Lum/CLT
Saesee/CLT
196

The last 4 is undecided, could be 1x R5, 2x R4, or a bid. Slightly lenient toward 2x R4

Thought on various ways of building the list:

• Battle Meditation + multiple JK vs all Named
  • Named is a clear winner. BM offers cool shaenanigans but Deltas are already replete with action econ, didn't find any combo that was nearly as solid as 4 abilities and all the extra force
• Obi vs Bariss + 10pts
  • The move order flexibility of all-I4 is nice, but I dont see 10pts of upgrades that approach the difference in value between Obi and Bariss
• 5/5/4/4 vs 5/4/4/4 (Plo vs Saesee + 2pts)
  • Plo's ability still feels meh, think I like Saesee better, needs more testing
• Sense
  • I like 1 copy a lot, it works wonders in high-ini match-ups. 2x is a consideration, but with decreasing marginal returns, you'd only do it if you couldn't find a chassis to sink it into, and that's not the case here. If the list had 1 more free point I'd prob do 2x.
• R5
  • R5 is lackluster. Use him when you have a shot and you are usually trading a hit landed for a hp, meh. The run away strat is probably how you actually want to use it, but its strictly worse than with R2.
• R4
  • R4 is pretty cool with Saesee and his increase force availability, but I don't think it necessary and wouldn't build around it.

Thoughts? Anything options I'm missing?

Been meaning to visit the Quad delta idea for a while. My first though is what do I need to sacrifice to get Anakin back in there

1 minute ago, Sk3tch said:

Been meaning to visit the Quad delta idea for a while. My first though is what do I need to sacrifice to get Anakin back in there

You'd be looking at

Ani / Sense Mace/ JK / JK (200)

Ani / Obi / JK / JK (198)

Ani / Sae / Lum / JK (199)

Personally I don't like the trade, Ani is great of course, but I don't like what's left over after. Maybe Sae/Lum since they support Ani, but the JK is kind-of a dead fish. If I wanted to run Ani I'd probably do 2x Jedi + acr or torrents

I've been flying lots of CLT Jedi. Primarily: Mace (CLT, R4, Sense); Saesee (CLT, R4); Lumi (CLT, R4); Barriss (CLT, R4, Sense).

THE GOOD : It's a dedicated ace hunter that absolutely punishes lists that are focused on one or two end-game arc dodgers. I've had outstanding results with it; my losses tend to come because my opponent flew well and I made an embarrassing mistake. The double Sense also means that, given a choice, opponents almost never focus Mace first; they prefer, perfectly reasonably, to try to get Saesee or Luminara off the board. The list also fares reasonably well against lower initiative arc-bound stuff; the Senses are wasted in those matchups, but also you're effectively flying a four-ace list.

THE BAD : It struggles the most against ordnance and raw stats, because it will struggle to chew through stuff like T-70s and a list full of gunboats that just soak up a ton of shots and can pop you with only one in return. It's a very fun list, and I recommend trying it out, especially if you're often matched up against aces. Also, fragile ships means even relatively small mistakes will absolutely be punished, passive mods be damned, and once in a while you can fly well and still lose to the dice gods (although this is more or less true of any list, 4 HP ships have less of a margin of error for dice variance).

PS: If you like 5 A-wings, then give 5 CLT Jedi Knights a whirl

47 minutes ago, Maui. said:

I've been flying lots of CLT Jedi. Primarily: Mace (CLT, R4, Sense); Saesee (CLT, R4); Lumi (CLT, R4); Barriss (CLT, R4, Sense).

I tried that exact list except with the 2nd Sense on Saesee instead. I even went back and forth between it and my current list several times while testing.

I can definitely see the allure of the 3rd/4th copy of R4 and 2nd copy of Sense, but I just don't think they match the advantage Obi gives over Barbar.

My breakdown:

• Pro Barbar
  • Everybody has R4 (instead of just 2x)
    • eliminates the issue of remembering who has it
    • a bit better chance of being able to use Saesee effectively
      • not even close to double though, maybe +30%?
    • Hard 1 after red is situation ally good, 4 copies instead of 2 gives maybe 2 gives maybe +1-2 actions per game
  • Everybody i4
    • Freedom to pick optimal move order
  • Barbar's ability averages maybe +1 result / game?
  • 2nd copy of Sense dose improve the matchup against higher Ini
    • Fly Barbar out front as sacrificial lamb and preserve Mace for end game
• Pro Obi
  • +2 Force, +1 Ini
  • Obi's focus replenish sees meaningful usage (e.g. it actually result in an roll being modified that wouldn't have) about 1 in 3 rounds (long term average)
    • Fully accessible early game (no 1/turn limit and Obi has 3 charges)
      • This is key, early game advantage is significantly better than late or distributed advantage (i.e. all of the advantages for Barbar/Double Sense)
    • Decent anti-FF (does nothing to help against whiffs tho)
    • Luminara and Sae's abilities can be used more liberally
  • With the +2 force and ability, Obi is probably seeing +5 results a game biased toward early game

The Barbar/Double Sense version prob has a slight advantage in high-Ini but Obi has a significant advantage in lower-Ini, leaving me leaning Obi. If I start loosing Mace regularly in high-Ini match-ups that may change my mind.

47 minutes ago, Maui. said:

THE BAD : It struggles the most against ordnance and raw stats [...] once in a while you can fly well and still lose to the dice gods (although this is more or less true of any list, 4 HP ships have less of a margin of error for dice variance). 

Yeah against beef I just open super fast and try for a heavily offset joust. It's not 100% reliable but I do usually come out of the trade on top due to arc advantage.

You do definitely live in fear of the dice gods. Probably 1 game in 3 a ship will just evaporate to a single shot early game and its gut wrenching. It hurts more than some other 4hp ships because its 1/4 of your list (as opposed to a 6+ Tie swarm, 5A, etc.) I am going to try to make peace with it but if I stop playing the list that'll be why.

47 minutes ago, Maui. said:

PS: If you like 5 A-wings, then give 5 CLT Jedi Knights a whirl

I move to Delta from 5A because I'm not a huge fan of 5-ship repo, they're fun but a lot of work to fly. The new list that's going to be good and more similar to 5A is 5x SF with Fanatical/AO. NRear arcs, no repo, but also no stress and a lot more beef, basically 5A simplified.

If you're rolling with CLT "aces," Plo and Obi, as I5s, are pretty much vital imo. Saesee and Mace round it out with functional abilities, with room for sense where you want it

On ‎7‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 6:32 PM, Maui. said:

PS: If you like 5 A-wings, then give 5 CLT Jedi Knights a whirl

A friend at the local game store has been trying it and apparently it's really good. He's done a load of repaints which look stunning, too.

On ‎7‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 7:12 PM, prauxim said:

You do definitely live in fear of the dice gods. Probably 1 game in 3 a ship will just evaporate to a single shot early game and its gut wrenching. It hurts more than some other 4hp ships because its 1/4 of your list (as opposed to a 6+ Tie swarm, 5A, etc.) I am going to try to make peace with it but if I stop playing the list that'll be why.

I can imagine. Watching a 4hp generic striker explode without rolling a single bit of paint is painful. Doing the same with a named jedi must be awful; lacking 'normal' talents you've no access to elusive and your evade is purple, so there's basically nothing you can do with blanks on green dice.

If Brilliant evasion let you spend force to modify blanks (even if it just changed them to focus unlike Rey's straight-to-evade) I suspect the more expensive force users would be all over it regardless of price.

10 hours ago, Greebwahn said:

If you're rolling with CLT "aces," Plo and Obi, as I5s, are pretty much vital imo. Saesee and Mace round it out with functional abilities, with room for sense where you want it

I can't imagine why anyone would ever run four Jedi without Luminara. I'd drop any one of those four to take her instead.

5 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

A friend at the local game store has been trying it and apparently it's really good. He's done a load of repaints which look stunning, too.

It's not bad, and it's definitely fun, especially if you have some experience flying hyper-maneuverable mini-swarms. But, as previously noted, it's pretty draining to fly and I'm pretty sure that four named Jedi is just plain better.

***

I just wanted to mention that I have received multiple complaints during games about the action efficiency of my 4/5 Aethersprites. My favorite so far was from a guy who was running a three-ship list getting three free actions every turn, plus passive mods and unblockable damage.

I am not really sold on Saesee's ability. Slave 1 is great, but hers has a lot higher cost.

What about taking Padmé? She synergises great with Luminara, but might have a problem with offensive output.

Something like this:

Obi-Wan Kenobi (47)
Calibrated Laser Targeting (4)

Mace Windu (45)
Calibrated Laser Targeting (3)

Luminara Unduli (43)
Calibrated Laser Targeting (3)

Padmé Amidala (45)

Total: 190

With ten points left for upgrades.

1 hour ago, Tempeljaeger said:

I am not really sold on Saesee's ability. Slave 1 is great, but hers has a lot higher cost.

What about taking Padmé? She synergises great with Luminara, but might have a problem with offensive output.

Something like this:

Obi-Wan Kenobi (47)
Calibrated Laser Targeting (4)

Mace Windu (45)
Calibrated Laser Targeting (3)

Luminara Unduli (43)
Calibrated Laser Targeting (3)

Padmé Amidala (45)

Total: 190

With ten points left for upgrades.

Yeah that's definitely a consideration. Ive only been able to try her once since she's not in Fly Casual but her ability does seem to pull weight.

I agree with Saesee being the one to go. I like his ability alright but I do think it's the weakest in my current list

I would spend the 10 on Sense for mace, which is pretty much a given I think, and then probably R2 on Padme.

Sense on Mace was my first idea as well, but I left it open, since Juke could make sense. I am always partial to FCS, especially, since Padmé could be the endgame ship with possesing the lowest obvious threat. Regen would always be nice thought. Disengaging is generally a good idea, since Obi-Wan and Luminara can burn through their force stacks in a single round.

26 minutes ago, Tempeljaeger said:

Sense on Mace was my first idea as well, but I left it open, since Juke could make sense. I am always partial to FCS, especially, since Padmé could be the endgame ship with possesing the lowest obvious threat. Regen would always be nice thought. Disengaging is generally a good idea, since Obi-Wan and Luminara can burn through their force stacks in a single round.

The list I actually flew was

Lum /7B
Mace/Sense/7B/R2
Padme/R2

I think maybe I like it more than the 4-ship version, but need to test.

Not too crazy about Juke since it just begs the opponent to focus Padme, with just R2 you do the opposite, punishes the opp for targeting here because of how good she is at run/regen, but also punishing the opp with lot of passive mods if they dont

New Squadron

(43) Luminara Unduli [Delta-7 Aethersprite]
(3) Calibrated Laser Targeting
Points: 46

(45) Mace Windu [Delta-7 Aethersprite]
(5) Sense
(3) Calibrated Laser Targeting
Points: 53

(47) Ahsoka Tano [Delta-7 Aethersprite]
(2) Calibrated Laser Targeting
Points: 49

(47) Obi-Wan Kenobi [Delta-7 Aethersprite]
(4) Calibrated Laser Targeting
Points: 51

Total points: 199

I really like this version

2 hours ago, Quack Shot said:

New Squadron

(43) Luminara Unduli [Delta-7 Aethersprite]
(3) Calibrated Laser Targeting
Points: 46

(45) Mace Windu [Delta-7 Aethersprite]
(5) Sense
(3) Calibrated Laser Targeting
Points: 53

(47) Ahsoka Tano [Delta-7 Aethersprite]
(2) Calibrated Laser Targeting
Points: 49

(47) Obi-Wan Kenobi [Delta-7 Aethersprite]
(4) Calibrated Laser Targeting
Points: 51

Total points: 199

I really like this version

Hmm.. What are you using soka's ability on mostly, TL?

6 minutes ago, prauxim said:

Hmm.. What are you using soka's ability on mostly, TL?

Pseudo Supernatural or passing action to whoever needs it whether her or a friend. Her ability is better than Saesee since she can pretty much do the same thing by passing a boost or barrel roll before a friend moves.

Just now, Quack Shot said:

Pseudo Supernatural or passing action to whoever needs it whether her or a friend. Her ability is better than Saesee since she can pretty much do the same thing by passing a boost or barrel roll before a friend moves.

Yeah I can see that, but I hate having to move her at i3, really shuts down a lot of options when your locked into 1 ship moving first

Honestly may be switching to 3x CLT or (2x 7B) + Padme.