I play a Mystic magus and am thinking of taking this spec as a way to add some non Jedi based lightsaber skills as it seems to go well with the not properly trained force user idea . What are your thoughts on it is it worth taking a spec you don’t get any class skills from to start?

If you want to invest in lightsaber, just buy ranks in it. It's 75xp to get 5 ranks in lightsaber and that'll serve you well.

However, if you want to invest in the FR+1, Parry 2/Reflect 1 the tree offers, then that's a different story. Using renegade form assumes you have a "main stat" you want to capitalise on. But even if you have a Presence of 4 and use renegade form, you'd need to spend like 20-30Xp for the tree, and another 45Xp to get to renegade form. So, it ends up being around a 75XP round trip no matter what. But, you are like 45XP closer to another FR+1, should that influence you.

It's up to you really what you'd prefer to focus on.

Depends on what you're after.

Padawan Survivor (Dawn of Rebellion) is similar in that it provides Force Rating 1 and no immediate bonus career skills, while eventually netting the character both Discipline and Lightsaber as career skills, along with various bonuses to crafting/modding lightsabers, a decent talent to add a potentially hefty bonus to lightsaber damage, and talents help the character stay off the Empire's radar.

Force Outcast also provides lightsaber-related goodies, notably Renegade Form (which only matters if you're intent on not using Brawn for your Lightsaber combat checks, or just want a back-up characteristic in case your Brawn is compromised somehow) but is a more aggressive combatant and not exactly one for subtlety.

To be honest, the whole notion of "not properly trained Force user" can be applied to all of the careers in Force and Destiny, as well as the Force Exile and Force Emergent universal specs. Of course, that's assuming that one is reading "not properly trained Force user" as "wasn't properly trained by the Jedi," which isn't necessarily the case as there are a number of Force traditions who can "properly train" a person in using the Force (for instance, the Nightsisters of Dathomir as well as the Baran Do Sages), but that training simply may not include lightsaber usage for a variety of reasons.

The character is more mental skill based then anything so brawn is average so before force outcast came out I was going to go for defender but outcast seems to be more useful as itsmore than just defending

4 hours ago, Oldmike1 said:

The character is more mental skill based then anything so brawn is average so before force outcast came out I was going to go for defender but outcast seems to be more useful as itsmore than just defending

Sounds like you've made up your mind already. This isn't like D&D where multiclassing can really foul you up, so you need not worry there.

Looking at the tree, if you want to add a little saberism with minimal investment, it's a decent option, as the right side digs through some saber features AND goes right down to +1 FR. So if you just want just a little saber stuff and a +1 FR... that's a valid option to get both.

2 hours ago, Ghostofman said:

Sounds like you've made up your mind already. This isn't like D&D where multiclassing can really foul you up, so you need not worry there.

Looking at the tree, if you want to add a little saberism with minimal investment, it's a decent option, as the right side digs through some saber features AND goes right down to +1 FR. So if you just want just a little saber stuff and a +1 FR... that's a valid option to get both.

This is my 1st character in this system and I already feel underpowered so I fear that I may make matters worse with bad picks in place of being focused on one stat I started with 3 3s so I can fill the groups holes (they had no face) and still do what I wanted (almost have the 4 stat in int so I can do more of the stuff I wish to )

27 minutes ago, Oldmike1 said:

This is my 1st character in this system and I already feel underpowered so I fear that I may make matters worse with bad picks in place of being focused on one stat I started with 3 3s so I can fill the groups holes (they had no face) and still do what I wanted (almost have the 4 stat in int so I can do more of the stuff I wish to )

Provided your GM actually uses the difficulty ratings well the feeling of being underpowered should dissipate when you start playing. Honestly, if your GM runs the campaigns like the films, you're actually better off being diverse over being specialized. It's Star Wars; the party splits, gets cut off, and so on. So you'll want to be able to do more than just one thing, otherwise you might find yourself trapped waiting for the rest of the party to assist you.

The trick you want to worry about is the whole Force Usage thing, as that will suck up your XP if you don't watch it. Plan out what you want to do with the Force ahead of time, and come up with an advancement plan to get there. Don't overdo it! A lot of people try to max out trees and do everything, and just end up not being able to go to the bathroom without help despite being able to lift a star destroyer with their brains.

When you review the force trees really look at what upgrades you really need. Most film characters only have a handful of powers and two or three upgrades after you weed out the narrative scenes. Then set priorities. What powers and upgrades you need? What FR do you need to get them to work right? What skills and talents do you need?

Prioritize these things and put them on a list. Then as you get XP you'll know what to do. You can adjust this list as you go, but by having a plan you'll also be able to really scrutinize your adjustments, instead of just buying whatever seems valuable at any given moment.

That’s basically what I done we played about 5 games it’s only in combat I feel truly useless (2 dice pools don’t do much and my character has heal harm as the only power but fears useing it if anyone may see it) mostly I been the talker. I have been focusing exp to get the stat upgrade so I will have a 4 die pool and after that I was looking for a 2ed tree to get some combat skills in

PS exp gain is ultra slow so I need to try to get the most bang for my buck as you will

2 hours ago, Oldmike1 said:

That’s basically what I done we played about 5 games it’s only in combat I feel truly useless (2 dice pools don’t do much and my character has heal harm as the only power but fears useing it if anyone may see it) mostly I been the talker. I have been focusing exp to get the stat upgrade so I will have a 4 die pool and after that I was looking for a 2ed tree to get some combat skills in

PS exp gain is ultra slow so I need to try to get the most bang for my buck as you will

OK I see a couple issues you need to talk to your GM about.
1. recommended xp is 5 xp per hour of real playing. If the XP gain is super slow you need to discuss that with your GM as it is impacting your fun.
2. are you using the healing aspect?
3. for ranged attacks the difficulty is 1 purple base at short range. 2 green should be able to land a hit the majority of the time. for melee the base difficulty is 2 purple which 2 green dice still have a greater than 50% of hitting. If your GM is not using the standard difficulties that is another issue you need to discuss with them.

I did bring up the exp useing the base games and that they gave like 15 exp per but he said he saw 5 exp bace with 1 extra point for doing stuff he fears op PCs as this is not his 1st game in the FFG and he wants us to fear stuff.

Yes from time to time though I think we are doing non combat doctor heals wrong as is that not to have any cost?

3 i have bad luck I guess lol

16 minutes ago, Oldmike1 said:

I did bring up the exp useing the base games and that they gave like 15 exp per but he said he saw 5 exp bace with 1 extra point for doing stuff he fears op PCs as this is not his 1st game in the FFG and he wants us to fear stuff.

Yes from time to time though I think we are doing non combat doctor heals wrong as is that not to have any cost?

3 i have bad luck I guess lol

because of the way this game works 1000 XP character still being challenged. Storm troopers played smart are super dangerous.