I'm curious if anyone has tried making a Jedi Knight (Jedi Career, Knight Spec) with Knight Level xp yet? I was considering seeing how it works.

It can be done you must take Padawan 1st though

48 minutes ago, Oldmike1 said:

It can be done you must take Padawan 1st though

Sidebar says you can purchase force rating at creation now apparently.

I was mainly checking to see if anyone has done it and what they think about it. I'm considering playing around with the Padawan and Knight specs and 150xp to see how knight level lives up to the name now that we have a legitimate Jedi career.

11 minutes ago, GroggyGolem said:

I was mainly checking to see if anyone has done it and what they think about it. I'm considering playing around with the Padawan and Knight specs and 150xp to see how knight level lives up to the name now that we have a legitimate Jedi career.

It works great if you do padawan then Knight. You end up with a really awesome jedi character. Add a lightsaber form if you like(not necessary but works great. Mixing in F&D specs to make your Jedi distinct. Season to taste

23 minutes ago, GroggyGolem said:

I was mainly checking to see if anyone has done it and what they think about it. I'm considering playing around with the Padawan and Knight specs and 150xp to see how knight level lives up to the name now that we have a legitimate Jedi career.

effectively now you can make a movie/clone wars style padawan with knight level xp. The issue comes with the force powers you'd need that most people consider basics.

31 minutes ago, Luahk said:

Sidebar says you can purchase force rating at creation now apparently.

What page I seemed to be missing that part

I read it on the forum I don't have the book yet.

15 minutes ago, Luahk said:

I read it on the forum I don't have the book yet.

Ahh there’s no sidebar in fact it states in bold you must have a force rating of 2 to take it though it has rules to be a starting spec so I wonder if there are plans for a race that starts with +1 force

10 minutes ago, Oldmike1 said:

Ahh there’s no sidebar in fact it states in bold you must have a force rating of 2 to take it though it has rules to be a starting spec so I wonder if there are plans for a race that starts with +1 force

It is a sidebar in collapse of the jedi...i dont have it yet so cant say more.

The sidebar in question is on page 17 of Collapse of the Republic, labeled The Short Path to Power.

Essentially, it allows a player with the GM's permission to spend 30 of their starting species XP to increase a Jedi character's Force Rating up to 2. The sidebar specifically uses Jedi, indicating a character who begins in the Jedi career, and is there as a way to allow players to have a Jedi character that begins in either the Knight or General specs, both of which require Force Rating 2 to enter.

I'm sure there's plenty of F&D players who are salivating over the chance to have their pet PC hit the ground running with a Force Rating of 2, but by default this option is only for Jedi PCs.

I have been playing around with it a bit, I really like spending that 30xp on FR2, but still starting in Padawan, so you end up with FR3 for only 70xp total cost!!! That leaves you with 110 of the Knight level xp to grab a couple of powers and some skill ranks with a bit of parry, reflect, and toughened talents

11 hours ago, Richardbuxton said:

I have been playing around with it a bit, I really like spending that 30xp on FR2, but still starting in Padawan, so you end up with FR3 for only 70xp total cost!!! That leaves you with 110 of the Knight level xp to grab a couple of powers and some skill ranks with a bit of parry, reflect, and toughened talents

Just my own take, but I feel that allowing the PC to buy their FR to 2 and then selecting Padawan is breaking the intent of the sidebar, which namely is to allow players to have their characters start as something other than being a Padawan, even more so if using Heroic/Knight Level XP. Especially with how inexpensive it is to reach the Force Rating talent in Padawan, which was probably set there so that PCs who started with Padawan could get their Force Rating up to 2 pretty quickly, allowing them to then move into Knight or General.

Doing the way you proscribed would enable a PC to very quickly jump from Padawan to Master, which again seems very much against the intent of the sidebar.

12 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

Just my own take, but I feel that allowing the PC to buy their FR to 2 and then selecting Padawan is breaking the intent of the sidebar, which namely is to allow players to have their characters start as something other than being a Padawan, even more so if using Heroic/Knight Level XP. Especially with how inexpensive it is to reach the Force Rating talent in Padawan, which was probably set there so that PCs who started with Padawan could get their Force Rating up to 2 pretty quickly, allowing them to then move into Knight or General.

Doing the way you proscribed would enable a PC to very quickly jump from Padawan to Master, which again seems very much against the intent of the sidebar.

I very much agree.

Also, on a semi-related note, another house-rule I'm debating is simply removing the prerequisite for the General spec. I have to look it over a bit more, but I don't think it's quite as powerful (and therefore not quite as in need if a prerequisite) as the Knight. A starting General then would simply be a Padawan who's focusing more on their role as a Commander rather than their role as an apprentice.

1 hour ago, Absol197 said:

I very much agree.

Also, on a semi-related note, another house-rule I'm debating is simply removing the prerequisite for the General spec. I have to look it over a bit more, but I don't think it's quite as powerful (and therefore not quite as in need if a prerequisite) as the Knight. A starting General then would simply be a Padawan who's focusing more on their role as a Commander rather than their role as an apprentice.

isnt the only prerequisite for general just force rating 2?

Yes. But if you remove that, then a starting Jedi can be either a Padawan or a General, and you don't need the "buy FR 2 with starting XP" rule, and then you don't have players whining about not being able to get Force rating 2 as a non-Jedi, or people trying to cheese it by starting as a Force-rating 2 Padawan to get Force rating 3 with only 70 xp. Which is stupid.

1 minute ago, Absol197 said:

Yes. But if you remove that, then a starting Jedi can be either a Padawan or a General, and you don't need the "buy FR 2 with starting XP" rule, and then you don't have players whining about not being able to get Force rating 2 as a non-Jedi, or people trying to cheese it by starting as a Force-rating 2 Padawan to get Force rating 3 with only 70 xp. Which is stupid.

that feels weird for a Jedi. I would only allow it is you dont have Rise. But only having Collapse seems weird...

They should’ve just reprinted Padawan and called it a day.

1 hour ago, Absol197 said:

Yes. But if you remove that, then a starting Jedi can be either a Padawan or a General, and you don't need the "buy FR 2 with starting XP" rule, and then you don't have players whining about not being able to get Force rating 2 as a non-Jedi, or people trying to cheese it by starting as a Force-rating 2 Padawan to get Force rating 3 with only 70 xp. Which is stupid.

Agreed, it seems obvious now but it’s definitely cheesecake city for a gm to allow that.

I'm playing a character who started as a Jedi Padawan and moved into Knight.

Some observations were that the padawan being able to earn FR2 so early meant that I could start to expand into my force powers sooner than with other F&D careers. For example, I had earned 180XP (for story reason) when I made the PC and was able to buy parry/reflect 1, FR+1, well rounded, quick draw and then Force powers: Enhance (down to brawn, agility commit), Sense base, Move base and Influence (mind trick and add force die to skill checks). That's a LOT more force potential than many other starting characters and the FR2 meant I could pull off the powers more consistently.

I don't think the Jedi career makes you any better as a "Jedi/Force character" per se, it just lets you get access to that essential FR2 earlier (around 30XP sooner) so you have an incentive to start investing XP in using your powers more effectively sooner, as they're more likely to go off.

As a career though (Padawn, Knight, Master, General), I have found the skill selection is really nice and serves as a great all rounder. They really suit the Jedi characters from the films. Well Rounded was a particularly nice touch but I found that I was more interested in boosting my force skills than worrying about getting skill ranks. I mean, the Force is your thing.

2 hours ago, masterstrider said:

1. I don't think the Jedi career makes you any better as a "Jedi/Force character" per se,

2. it just lets you get access to that essential FR2 earlier (around 30XP sooner) so you have an incentive to start investing XP in using your powers more effectively sooner, as they're more likely to go off.

1. Ok, cool, I'm curious to know why, go on.

2. Actually that does sound better. 😐 Obtaining FR2 quicker opens up so much more possibilities for a Force User.

3 minutes ago, GroggyGolem said:

1. Ok, cool, I'm curious to know why, go on.

2. Actually that does sound better. 😐 Obtaining FR2 quicker opens up so much more possibilities for a Force User.

Agreed. FR1 is so anaemic even when you play the system as intended and take regular conflict for Dark Side use. You either commit that die or only ever use the basic force power.

4 hours ago, GroggyGolem said:

1. Ok, cool, I'm curious to know why, go on.

2. Actually that does sound better. 😐 Obtaining FR2 quicker opens up so much more possibilities for a Force User.

1. Most of the core talents and abilities they offer in the career are available elsewhere (particularly with the Padawan and Knight specs; Master is a whole other kettle of fish). So by that logic, you could conceivably take any number of specs, as required and provided enough XP, to achieve what the Jedi career offers. By this I refer to things like (Imp) Parry/Reflect, FR+1/2, etc. They do offer their own unique signature talents (Will of the Force being a particularly nice talent), but that is no different from any other career. Part of the Padawan tree will never see XP investment, which is a shame, whereas other talent trees with FR+1 lower in the branch may hold your interest longer due to the talents available.

As I mentioned above, the early access to FR+1 lets you get "involved" in the force part of your character earlier. From a game design perspective, I can see why this XP tax for FR+1 exists; to prevent people buying into careers early and getting those cheap FR+1s. But given the cost of investing in Force powers + the rating to make the powers effective, it acts more as a disincentive for Force Sensitive PCs who are forced to hobble along while they develop their skills (very much akin to playing a Wizard in 2nd ed D&D). In saying that, FR2 is a massive power jump for someone who knows how to take advantage of playing a Force class.

I am happy to expand on this more if you're interested.

2. It certainly takes a lot of the early pain away. I hated having to play a force user who had 1 dice to roll or commit for like 5-6 sessions until I could get to my FR2, only to find that I now need to invest another 20-30XP per Force power before I was getting anything in return. I think it's even worse if you don't play with Knight level XP. Padawan is a blessing for players who want to get into the role of being a Force user earlier in the game. It made me to desperate for XP and took attention away from the RP side of my character who was miles away from how I envisioned them performing.

One of the reasons I enjoy a good laugh at people who ***** about Move is I've done the long drag from starting at FR1 to FR3.

I mean I started as a Consular with Sage and probably for the first ten sessions the only thing I was really useful for was Valueble Fact...

Honestly wish Sage had a rework with Improved and Supreme Valueble Fact...

I fell in love with Padawn I'm playing right now in a Clone Wars Campaign we started the minute one of us got Rise of the Republic.

I'm the 12 year old Padawn the Clone Trooper "Special" Forces won in a Sabaac game.

The Clones often complain that my Jedi Knight Master cheated them...

9 hours ago, Decorus said:

One of the reasons I enjoy a good laugh at people who ***** about Move is I've done the long drag from starting at FR1 to FR3.

I mean I started as a Consular with Sage and probably for the first ten sessions the only thing I was really useful for was Valueble Fact...

Honestly wish Sage had a rework with Improved and Supreme Valueble Fact...

I fell in love with Padawn I'm playing right now in a Clone Wars Campaign we started the minute one of us got Rise of the Republic.

I'm the 12 year old Padawn the Clone Trooper "Special" Forces won in a Sabaac game.

The Clones often complain that my Jedi Knight Master cheated them...

Try playing a Squib Jedi Padawan.