2 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

generic R5's ability is an action so at best you could have 2 of them regen and the other 2 coordinate the focus

You can Battle Med R5's action, so you still get 8 actions total. You could 4x regen + 4x focus, but you'd only want to if all 4 had damage, more likely you'd do 2x regen, 4x focu, 2x whatever

2 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

CLT really comes in to effect against larger bases where it can effectively turn that 2 red die into 3 allot easier (much like HLC loves to munch on them in my experience) with full normal mods using Battle Meditation

Yeah but that's just my point. The CLT gains are less than they would be one a 3die ship. E.g. 2d CLT+Focus to 2d CLT+TL+Focus is only +0.36 hits compared to +0.53 from 3die single to 3die double . And 3agi really wants eyeball mods. Less gain/more opportunity cost is the classic formula for less than optimal synergy.

Not saying its a horrible idea, or that you would never want to focus/TL if you ran it, I just I don't think it pulls 24pts worth of weight unless you focus on another way to leverage it (e.g. premove repo and/or R5)

I already preferred CLT before.

What’s really interesting: CLT Anakin is 1 point more expensive than 7B Obi Wan.

Flew against a list that contained Anakin with CLT and Asoka with 7D. I found that Anakin could line up often enough against me. I ran 2 tunes/Luke/Wedge. However, once he was down to one force a turn, he usually did not have a way to convert the focus, (after barrel roll/boost).

Not that it is a bad card. Competitively priced against the option.

Have flown about 15 variations of Quad CLT in Fly Casual while traveling for the 4th.

JK + BM shanagigans are fun, but I don't think there's any substance to it. Falls over in too many situations.

Obi/Mace/Lum/Sae CLT with Sense on Mace is pretty decent. Almost always focus, lots of force for FTC/Abilities. Sense blocking is great for garunteeing r1 bullseyes. The last 4 pts can either be 1x R5 or 2x R4.

Probably not quite as strong as Trip 7B/R2, definitely a higher ceiling, but feels more thematic, and I definitely don't miss re gen playstyle.

The main issue, one that points won't ever solve, is a CLT will just pop with 1 bad dice roll. And it hurts a lot worse than loosing a RZ2/Tie/etc.

Yes. They do pop. Same issue as A-wings.

On 7/3/2019 at 10:10 AM, BlastyMcBlasterFace said:

If you're going for the bullseye anyways, do you think Predictive Shot is worth it? Seems to me it is because you're rolling less dice.

The problem I have with Predictive shot is it costs a force and happens after CLT. So now you are talking about spending 3 force a turn to get a good hit. 1 for the boost, 1 for flipping CLT focus into a hit and 1 for Predictive Shot. Its too bad that CLT happens before, if it was the other way around it and predictive shot would be a fantastic combo because you could deny the extra die and add the hit.

20 minutes ago, AngryAlbatross said:

The problem I have with Predictive shot is it costs a force and happens after CLT. So now you are talking about spending 3 force a turn to get a good hit. 1 for the boost, 1 for flipping CLT focus into a hit and 1 for Predictive Shot. Its too bad that CLT happens before, if it was the other way around it and predictive shot would be a fantastic combo because you could deny the extra die and add the hit.

Yeah, if the timing was different it'd be a lot better, but then it wouldn't be very "predictive" 😁

As is, its good against 4 die and great against 5 (more accurately, when greens are +1 and +2 over reds) the problem, as @theBitterFig points out, is the small overlap between you having bulls-eye and a defender rolling 4-5 die (tends to be r3, the hardest range to get ||)

On a Inqs its a bit better proposition, its worth it against 3 green at R2 (PS+focus hits harder than 2die fully modded in this case) and get better against more green dice, and with no ability/FTC the opportunity cost is lower. Still not sure if it would be "good"

4 hours ago, prauxim said:

Yeah, if the timing was different it'd be a lot better, but then it wouldn't be very "predictive" 😁

As is, its good against 4 die and great against 5 (more accurately, when greens are +1 and +2 over reds) the problem, as @theBitterFig points out, is the small overlap between you having bulls-eye and a defender rolling 4-5 die (tends to be r3, the hardest range to get ||)

On a Inqs its a bit better proposition, its worth it against 3 green at R2 (PS+focus hits harder than 2die fully modded in this case) and get better against more green dice, and with no ability/FTC the opportunity cost is lower. Still not sure if it would be "good"

It's great against defenders with lots of dice and focus.

It's awful against defenders with few dice and evade.

I think that mostly sums it up.

6 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

It's great against defenders with lots of dice and focus who you have bullseye on

It's awful against defenders with few dice and evade

I think that mostly sums it up.

Added a key point. "Good sometime / bad sometime" is fine, esp for 1pt, but "almost never good" is a no go

Ultimately, for CLT, I would want to see 2 || shots against a 4 die ship (per game, per PS carrier, long term average) to justify 1 pt. I don't have the data to back it up, but my guts says it doesn't happen. I'd guess the average is closer to 1, at which point you have an objectively worse Crackshot.

Posted in my Quad CLT thread , will repost here since that's not getting much traffic

Obi/Sense Mace R4/Saesee R4/Lum (all CLT) --- vs --- Barbar Sense R4/Sense Mace R4/Saesee R4/Lum R4 (all CLT)

(Barbar == Barriss, for obvious reasons)

• Pro Barbar
  • Everybody has R4 (instead of just 2x)
    • eliminates the issue of remembering who has it
    • a bit better chance of being able to use Saesee effectively
      • not even close to double though, maybe +30%?
    • Hard 1 after red is situationally good, 4 copies instead of 2 gives maybe 2 gives maybe +1-2 actions per game
  • Everybody i4
    • Freedom to pick optimal move order
  • Barbar's ability averages maybe +1 result / game?
  • 2nd copy of Sense dose improve the matchup against higher Ini
    • Fly Barbar out front as sacrificial lamb and preserve Mace for end game
• Pro Obi
  • +2 Force, +1 Ini
  • Obi's focus replenish sees meaningful usage (e.g. it actually result in an roll being modified that wouldn't have) about 1 in 3 rounds (long term average)
    • Fully accessible early game (no 1/turn limit and Obi has 3 charges)
      • This is key, early game advantage is significantly better than late or distributed advantage (i.e. all of the advantages for Barbar/Double Sense)
    • Decent anti-FF (does nothing to help against whiffs tho)
    • Luminara and Sae's abilities can be used more liberally
  • With the +2 force and ability, Obi is probably seeing +5 results a game biased toward early game 
    
    

Thoughts?