The various writers of the Confessions of a Midwest Scrub got together to discuss the good and the bad of this recent points change. Check it out here. And let us know your thoughts on the points update.

The good: ...

The bad: ...

The interesting: keyforge just came out with a new set recently. Does that count?

Really feels like this points change didn't happen for some odd reason. Not sure what the actual reason for this feeling is, but it really feels like they kind of just change points randomly without much reason. 1 point changes really feels like it accomplishes actually nothing and it seems like they made a couple of them for some odd reason.

33 minutes ago, ThinkingB said:

1 point changes really feels like it accomplishes actually nothing and it seems like they made a couple of them for some odd reason.

1 point up on Crack Shot would probably set off a ragestorm that would shut the game down. 1 point down on the missiles would probably let them see some play. 1 point down on the Vultures gives them many more loadout options at the swarm level. 1 point can be very very big, even on a 200-pt scale.

For myself I'm quite surprised that no one commented on the two most glaringly terrible omissions:

1. No changes to the YT-2400

2. No changes to lock-based missiles

Both of these things hardly saw play at all before and were always the wrong choice. They were already some of the most underperforming and disappointing things in the whole game. No change to either of them at all makes me think the devs almost don't even know what they're doing. Of course, I really like almost all of the changes they made (nerfs to Guri and ID aside), so I'll grant they probably just didn't want to do too much at once. But still.

Since they killed double-tap Dash (which also didn't do all that well), I've never heard of the YT-2400 winning a single game, even a casual game, be it Dash, Leebo, or the Wild Space Fringer. Listfortress shows Leebo and the Wild Space Fringer have never been taken in an OP event, and Dash only in 3, averaging the 17th percentile. When they said "We think Dash is fine" I was just completely and utterly dumbfounded. It makes no sense.

Lock-based missiles at 2 points less across the board (and probably Cannons at 1-2 points less but I won't get into that) would really make for more interesting list-building options as it gives new options to the V-19, TIE/ag, RZ-1, TIE/sa, TIE/ca, Vulture, Hyena, and many others that are only so-so right now and have few build options due to a dearth of palatable missiles. Would any of these be broken, or even auto-include on any chassis?

Ion missiles - 2 points

Homing Missiles - 3 points

Cluster Missiles - 3 points

Concussion Missiles - 4 points

They're so hard to get off, and things like PS, Synchronized Console, and Targeting Synchronizer are all even more points investment on a dubious attack in the first place. They want to be used most on filler ships. It's basically just a bonus for surviving long enough to get the lock, and it's not even that big a bonus. The range requirements are fiddly enough as is. Leaving these things totally unchanged is a massive disappointment to me.

Lesser things would be rebel Fenn, generic interceptors, the enigma of TIE Striker pricing, and the M3-A.

Generally speaking though, I think the new meta will be much more balanced and hopefully the I4s can really come out to play. We'll see if this is true or is just a pipe dream.

Personally, the drop to all flavours of Tie-FO has been fantastic, really helped the faction that struggled a lot with very few playable archetype. They still need more ship diversity, but slowly they are coming around to being a faction not entirely built around 2 pilots only.

14 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Lock-based missiles at 2 points less across the board (and probably Cannons at 1-2 points less but I won't get into that) would really make for more interesting list-building options as it gives new options to the V-19, TIE/ag, RZ-1, TIE/sa, TIE/ca, Vulture, Hyena, and many others that are only so-so right now and have few build options due to a dearth of palatable missiles. Would any of these be broken, or even auto-include on any chassis?

Ion missiles - 2 points

Homing Missiles - 3 points

Cluster Missiles - 3 points

Concussion Missiles - 4 points

They're so hard to get off, and things like PS, Synchronized Console, and Targeting Synchronizer are all even more points investment on a dubious attack in the first place. They want to be used most on filler ships. It's basically just a bonus for surviving long enough to get the lock, and it's not even that big a bonus. The range requirements are fiddly enough as is. Leaving these things totally unchanged is a massive disappointment to me.

With the current reduction we've seen of ships that can carry missiles, by god, yes those prices would be broken. Especially Homing Missiles. Passive Sensors is only 3 pts so not a huge point investment already when chassis that have access to sensor and missiles mostly went down. Separatist have access to DRK Probes which is basically LRS. New tools and pricing is here, I'd say lets have this discussion in 4-5 months on missile costs.

19 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

1 point down on the Vultures gives them many more loadout options at the swarm level.

When that one point drop is combined with the point increase of the ESCs it basically did nothing. I was hoping CIS would get at least a little better after the change but it seems like they just got kicked while they were down.

16 minutes ago, DarthSempai said:

Personally, the drop to all flavours of Tie-FO has been fantastic, really helped the faction that struggled a lot with very few playable archetype. They still need more ship diversity, but slowly they are coming around to being a faction not entirely built around 2 pilots only.

My FO swarm dropped 11 points, allowing me to fit in some interesting upgrades and pilots

6 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

They were already some of the most underperforming and disappointing things in the whole game. No change to either of them at all makes me think the devs almost don't even know what they're doing. Of course, I really like almost all of the changes they made (nerfs to Guri and ID aside), so I'll grant they probably just didn't want to do too much at once. But still.

It seems that mostly what they did was take any list that performed well, increased it to a 220 points cost for the increases. The decreases mostly make sense, but what didn't change is what seems most glaring as you say. Missiles, YT2400, M3A, most T65s, StarVipers, and maybe Fangs. T65s, StarVipers, and Fangs remaining unchanged seems odd with the changes to the T70s. The I4 Black Squadron Ace T70 at 49 while the I4 Fang stayed at 50 and the I3 StarViper stayed at 48 seems off.

Overall, I like the changes to FO, Resistance, CIS, and Republic (Obi-Wan excepting), but some things were just lacking.

17 minutes ago, Caduceus01 said:

When that one point drop is combined with the point increase of the ESCs it basically did nothing. I was hoping CIS would get at least a little better after the change but it seems like they just got kicked while they were down.

While yes, ESC vultures net out the same, Discord vultures are cheaper, opening up some interesting options, plus 3 of the B-22s dropped. The hike to Maul, Dooku and Hate is less fun, but there are interesting options to be had (like Grievous with Outmaneuver, Impervium, and Soulless One for 60). That makes him potentially a viable flanker, and if he gets flanked he still gets rerolls on defense and the added survivability from Impervium.

That being said, I don’t think that the points change did much for Vultures, particularly since I see running a naked vulture as the epitome of a bad idea. It’s also a shame that 32C is so expensive, but still need to test it out and see if the cost is worth that ability.

Juke and Loks didn't need to go up, Loks specifically would have been fine with the adjustment to VTG (really didn't need January points reduction) and Turrets (conversely adjusting Loks a little more and adjusting Y-Wings up slightly as well instead of VTG and turrets wouldn't have rendered the TIE/ag Aggressor "buff" effectively non-existent). Drea did not need to go up as high as she did, 3-4 points instead of the **** 7 would have been fine. Phantoms are still more efficient than other "elusive" ships for the cost by a long shot. What the heck is the Sigma doing the same cost as a BSA Starviper? BSAs don't need to be cheap, but they require a significant points investment to get even close to the efficiency of the Sigma and even then the I4 of the Sigma nukes the BSA's I3. And the I3 Imdaars costing the same as a Zealous Recruit Fang and less than the I2 BSE Starviper??? bull...

That said I sort of get the Scyks not getting their costs reduced if only because they probably want to see how Autoblaster Scyks pan out first.

40 minutes ago, Caduceus01 said:

When that one point drop is combined with the point increase of the ESCs it basically did nothing.

🤨 8x Trade Fed with ESC and Struts = 200 even. Give it a whirl...

From scum point of view. Not much to help here. 3pt drop to shadowcaster title was good. the illicit contraband cybernetics went down 3 which means its now playable. minor 1-2pt reductions here and there. Dengar got a drop too but debatable if that was enough to make him competitive again. FFG def conservative this time around. Scum nerfed hard last time and didnt get much help this time. drea needed to go up and she did. VTG also needed to go up. maul should have got a buff by a point instead of a nerf imo.

1 hour ago, RStan said:

With the current reduction we've seen of ships that can carry missiles, by god, yes those prices would be broken. Especially Homing Missiles. Passive Sensors is only 3 pts so not a huge point investment already when chassis that have access to sensor and missiles mostly went down. Separatist have access to DRK Probes which is basically LRS. New tools and pricing is here, I'd say lets have this discussion in 4-5 months on missile costs.

Maybe you're right and we should wait and see, but I have some serious doubts.

• Concussion + PS = 9 points. You want to put that on your Punishers over Plasmas, protons, or barrage?

• Clusters + Synchronized Console = 7 points. Does that sound good? It makes your Gold trooper go from 25-32 or two of them go from 50 to 64. Is it worth it for what you're cutting out of the list? Probably never. If it was the two of them for 60 points? Sure, it's an interesting choice. For 64 you're just asking for trouble.

• Homing Missiles + Targeting Synchronizer = 11 points. This is absurdly expensive, even if it works okay. Now your Heroic I1 A-Wing costs 45 points. Do you really want to sink that much into something that pops so easily?

• DRK-1 probes I haven't seen much of, but they take some time to get into position. It's definitely not helping you out on an alpha strike (unless you're massively good with swarm delay tactics) and trying to play turtle with 25-point vulture droids never goes over well. Would you ever pay 5 for clusters over ESC?

Compare to:

• Concussion + PS = 7 pts. Actually pretty good on generic Punishers or TIE/v1s. Autoinclude? Not really. There are some much better options out there at a similar price point. It's still paying a lot just for 1 extra die a couple times.

• Clusters + Synchronized Console = 5 pts. For your V-19s, you now have an option: Cheap blocker, or cheap blocker that sometimes gets an extra die? Maybe it's good but with 2 7B Jedi you probably don't have room or else you're leaving off some important upgrades.

• Homing Missiles and Targeting Synchronizer = 9 points. Still awful expensive to stick on an A-Wing, but could be nice in numbers for ace-killing. Still can't take 5 though.

Doesn't seem broken to me. Maybe they'd get played a lot, but Barrage and ESC already get played so much it's not like the devs want missiles sitting out of the game.

37 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

🤨 8x Trade Fed with ESC and Struts = 200 even. Give it a whirl...

I have. I have been playing the various flavors of the Ocho since CIS dropped. Vultures are still way to variance dependent for their cost. Some games they are great and others you lose 3 before they fire. As far as tournaments go CIS is pretty much dead until the Nantex releases.

1 hour ago, Caduceus01 said:

I have. I have been playing the various flavors of the Ocho since CIS dropped. Vultures are still way to variance dependent for their cost. Some games they are great and others you lose 3 before they fire. As far as tournaments go CIS is pretty much dead until the Nantex releases.

Alpha squadron Interceptors just WISH you could field 6 of them, and they’re even more squishy and variance-prone...

While I agree, finding that same guy in all threads commenting how missiles should be cheaper reminds me of jumper cables...

I think they largely learned from their mistake with Ywings, dropping the hull, VTG and the turrets simultaneously was a boo boo. They’ve just released passive sensors, I think they want to wait and see how that helps missile spam before going all in.

After all you can now do TIE/sf with passive sensors and Homing missiles x 5. Is it good? I don’t know but I sure know I’ll **** myself if I’m playing aces vs it the first few times!

Might we start to see them fire missiles out the rear? Oh my that is terrifying.

1 hour ago, Max Teranous said:

I think they largely learned from their mistake with Ywings, dropping the hull, VTG and the turrets simultaneously was a boo boo. They’ve just released passive sensors, I think they want to wait and see how that helps missile spam before going all in.

After all you can now do TIE/sf with passive sensors and Homing missiles x 5. Is it good? I don’t know but I sure know I’ll **** myself if I’m playing aces vs it the first few times!

That really is a perfectly fair point. It’s mainly the sensorless frames that are sad.

19 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

That really is a perfectly fair point. It’s mainly the sensorless frames that are sad.

Aye, maybe we’ll find passive sensors driven missiles are in an fine place now - in which case next points update all missiles can go down a point, and passive sensors up a point. The iterative process is powerful, no need to rush it.

CiS got quite a bit:

significant; quite needed beeblebubble point reductions to pilots (esp grievous) and unique upgrades

reduced points of probe and buzzdroids and a cheapo platform for both (Hyena)

reduced points of Vultures, to be used with either support abilities (311, eh?) or discord missiles etc rather than just ESC

****** one point struts. These things are utterly hilarious and now actually worth using!

and we got TA-175 for swarmy fun

On 7/2/2019 at 12:17 PM, Caduceus01 said:

When that one point drop is combined with the point increase of the ESCs it basically did nothing. I was hoping CIS would get at least a little better after the change but it seems like they just got kicked while they were down.

Wtf are you smoking.

Grapples at 1 point radically change the vulture swarm.

A loaded greivous went down 9pts!!!

gonna share the magic of struts here

Baktoid just chilling out of retaliation range for the whole game, other than one shot from ole

P.S: remember to dial in 4-forwards. You won't move because of struts, but ole won't get his ability!

P.P.S: hate is bull strong. the fact that it was 3 points before is ludicrous. There was a turn that literally consisted of:

1. Maul attacks, Dookus a crit

2. Maul gets shot by sinker. Two damage is grievoused to 1. Hate regen; Dooku's back

3. Torrent shoots Maul; two hits. Dooku an evade like c3po. Hate regen; Dooku's back

4. stupid Vulture gets to shoot. Dooku a crit. End of round; Dooku's back

1 hour ago, Icelom said:

Wtf are you smoking.

Grapples at 1 point radically change the vulture swarm.

A loaded greivous went down 9pts!!!

Yes Grievous got much better but the rest of the faction is lagging behind. I love the Vulture swarm but in most games you lose 1-2 before they shoot and probably have to spend a couple more calculates on defense. Once you get to unload your shells you better pray you roll above average because if you don’t then the game is pretty much over. I personally was hoping that Vultures would go down enough to make running them without shells an actual choice.

1 hour ago, Caduceus01 said:

Yes Grievous got much better but the rest of the faction is lagging behind. I love the Vulture swarm but in most games you lose 1-2 before they shoot and probably have to spend a couple more calculates on defense. Once you get to unload your shells you better pray you roll above average because if you don’t then the game is pretty much over. I personally was hoping that Vultures would go down enough to make running them without shells an actual choice.

TA-175 has been awesome in the games I've played with it. While you don't have quite the calculate force that you do with Kraken, consistently bringing calculates into the rest of your list while you are in bump city or 1king around the board really punishes your opponent for their small victories.