Since nobody has said it already, I will.

"They did fix it. That is why you don't see it anymore!"

Nah.

Like Grey Knights in 40k, it’s still in time out from what happened before. Adding a gunner slot means they are clearly looking at it, and it also probably means that other changes probably started creeping into 1.0 Jumpmaster territory (or at least too close for comfort).

40 minutes ago, player3010587 said:

Once something efficient gets behind it, like a force user, it bleeds without doing much anything in return.

Um, so didn't let that happen??

Or have a support ship that protects the JM5K's rear?? None of these ships should be flying in a vacuum (er. . .wait) so if your JM5K is getting a banana in it's tail pipe, I gotta wonder what the rest of your list was doing.

37 minutes ago, sirjorj said:

Since nobody has said it already, I will.

"They did fix it. That is why you don't see it anymore!"

Yeah, the ship that single-handedly ruined 1.0 is now being lamented. Crazy that.

People are probably just pissed that it's the only ship they have 3 of and are annoyed they can't fly them all together still.

5 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Yeah, the ship that single-handedly ruined 1.0 is now being lamented. Crazy that.

People are probably just pissed that it's the only ship they have 3 of and are annoyed they can't fly them all together still.

I personally only flew Torp scouts once. It crushed, and was boring as ****. I bought 3 JM5K's flew it, and it was only then that I realized I had wasted my money. I loved flying Dengar, even after the nerf. Was it worse, yeah, but I could squeeze other ships or upgrades on them and still have a fun time.

These are being re-released later this year, so, I'd expect some attention right before or after that.

12 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

People are probably just pissed that it's the only ship they have 3 of and are annoyed they can't fly them all together still.

Isn't that a valid reason though? I do not have 3 personally but wouldn't you want to be able to use something you spent £60+ (whatever dollars) on?

I remember getting chewed out for claiming that the new dial made the ship unplayable when 2.0 came out.

One of my favorite pilots to fly back in 1.0 was PTL Dengar. Now I can barely put him on the table without feeling like I’m handicapping myself.

Such a shame.

Unpopular opinion: The dial is just fine. With Agile Gunner, moving the turret isn't problem. The ONLY thing that makes the Jump utterly lousy is the lack of firepower. It's got some heft, you can put it where you want to most of the time (seriously, if it didn't have the linked action no one would complain about the dial), and it has some very decent pilot abilities.

It just won't ever make its points back off of its 2-primary and the title costs way too much for how situational it is. Either you're treating it like a front arc ship or you're treating it like a 2-attack turret. Neither one is worth 60+ points.

I'm strongly against changing the dial, not only because it's never going to happen anyway, but because I like the character it gives the Jump. The 1e jumpmaster had the very best dial in the game. Better than the TIE interceptor, TIE silencer, TIE defender, or A-Wing. White turnaround and blue hard turn is absolutely and blatantly absurd, even if the blues are only in one direction. It doesn't matter because it doesn't get stress from turning around anyway! Looking for a dial that's anything like that in 2.0 will be a fruitless search. As it is, it can be tricky to fly (as it was intended to be in 1e; it just totally missed the mark). That's okay as long as it's "got it where it counts" in other areas. No one complains about the Lambda's or the Reaper's dial, and they're infinitely worse.

The problem is that it definitively does not have it where it counts. It has very little to recommend itself other than an I6 pilot with a strong ability and a decent amount of survivability. There are much better torp carriers (Kimo, Slave I, Viper), much better turrets (Falcon, Y, HWK, Scurrg), a much better large-base 2-agility ship (Lancer), much better crew carriers (YT, YV, Quadjumper), much better I6s (Han, Fenn) etc. The list of ships that do much better the few things the Jump can do is far too long.

The Jump either needs something that gives it more punch, something that gives it more flexibility, or something that gives it a unique gimmick. There's a major downside to being stressed? Maybe also give it an advantage for being stressed! There's an advantage to turning left? Maybe double-down on the reward for turning left! It's a turret that likes to shoot forward? Maybe give it some reason to turn its turret! Never underestimate the power of the Sensor slot. It's a premium scout craft after all, isn't it? R3 and FCS is a potent combo. AS would mitigate the dial. PS would make it a much better torp carrier. CD would help Dengar over the rocks. It could single-handedly save the platform.

It's not so much that everything about the Jump is straight-up trash, it's just that the Jump doesn't have anything that makes it stand out from the pack. Regardless, I'm much more in favor of embracing its identity and running with it than shoe-horning in some mechanic to undo its identity; that would only make it a ship that's undermining itself and makes it much more obvious that some other ship will do the job you need much better.

22 minutes ago, K13R4N said:

Isn't that a valid reason though? I do not have 3 personally but wouldn't you want to be able to use something you spent £60+ (whatever dollars) on?

Semi-valid.

If you have 3 of them, I suspect you just bought them to chase the meta. If you were willing to pay-to-win before, you can support the hobby by paying-to-win again.

Or you can support the hobby by buying other stuff to fly.

If you are going to be a drama-queen about "dumpster fires," I'm already a little less sympathetic to your cause.

58 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Semi-valid.

If you have 3 of them, I suspect you just bought them to chase the meta. If you were willing to pay-to-win before, you can support the hobby by paying-to-win again.

Ehhhhh. Let's not be too harsh now. 1.0 really was a very "pay-to-win or bust" environment. A lot of people who were that way in 1.0 have changed their ways. Let's not put people into boxes.

59 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

If you are going to be a drama-queen about "dumpster fires," I'm already a little less sympathetic to your cause.

Probably still fair. I'm not a big fan of drama in general, especially over toy plastic spaceships. There were lots of things I was sad to see missed in the points change, but I'm not going to make a stink about it.

EXCEPT THE FREAKING YT-2400 AND NONSENSE LOCK-BASED MISSILES GETTING NO CHANGE WHATSOEVER. WHY, FFG, WHY?!?!?! ... Hahaha

2 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

If you are going to be a drama-queen about "dumpster fires," I'm already a little less sympathetic to your cause.

👆 This I'm with however. I want every ship to be playable... Maybe even 3 of the same ship, but the title... talk about click bait 😂

I've been thinking it'd be fun to make a config that could help out both the JM5K and the Shadowcaster. Bring back Gyroscopic Targeting! To work well with both ships you wouldn't want to tie it to moving fast anymore, but maybe non-straight maneuvers? Something like (just pulling this out of my *** here):

Gyroscopic Targeting
Configuration: Large Ship, Single-Arc Turret Only
1 Charge. During the End Phase, you may spend 1 <charge> to rotate your turret arc. After you fully execute a bank or turn maneuver, regain 1<charge>

3 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

Yeah, the ship that single-handedly ruined 1.0 is now being lamented. Crazy that.

People are probably just pissed that it's the only ship they have 3 of and are annoyed they can't fly them all together still.

And what of people like me, who started after the final 1E nerf and enjoyed playing that ship, no torps and no astromech? No meta chasing, I just want the ship to be playable. At this point, I think you can fly one JM5K effectively, and that is only because of the title.

3 hours ago, buckero0 said:

These are being re-released later this year, so, I'd expect some attention right before or after that.

my thinking as well.

1 minute ago, Da_Brown_Bomber said:

my thinking as well.

Except that they don't seem to be releasing anything additional in the re-release ships. If it wasn't in the conversion kit, it probably won't be in the Jumpmaster. I'm very underwhelmed by both the Scyk and JM5K rereleases for that reason. Both ships could stand a pick-me-up (esp. the Jumpmaster).

21 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:

And what of people like me, who started after the final 1E nerf and enjoyed playing that ship, no torps and no astromech? No meta chasing, I just want the ship to be playable.

Fair enough. But I will say that a lot of these threads, after the initial OP's fusillade, end of with any number of players pointing out the various ways the ship can be played successfully.

I think people need to see the ship in it's appropriate framework; not every ship in the game should be an independently successful chassis. That's why listbuilding is important.

Quote

At this point, I think you can fly one JM5K effectively, and that is only because of the title.

So, then, be happy? I mean, it is the Punishing One expac, so it kinda works as advertised. 😜

But, actually, this leads me to a thread question. . .

3 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

I mean, it is the Punishing One expac, so it kin  da works as advertised.

Hahahahaha, you got me there.

If they hadn't locked R4 to small ships only, the Jump would probably be fine right now. It's those red hard turns that are the biggest problem with its dial. Dengar with the title and either Greedo or Hotshot Gunner isn't bad for a baseline. 65-71 points for an I6 pilot who can shoot twice in a round with either a guaranteed crit or token-stripping capabilities, and you still have EPT, Illicit, Torpedo, Mod and Astromech slots free for seasoning.

Apologies for the thread title - not my intention to be a "drama queen"

On This.

8 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

Or have a support ship that protects the JM5K's rear?? None of these ships should be flying in a vacuum (er. . .wait) so if your JM5K is getting a banana in it's tail pipe, I gotta wonder what the rest of your list was doing.

Have you tried running the ship?

I have tried it with 4LOM and Teroch - those 2 were doing a great job pulling their weight - hard for them to also be Dengar's protector or support.

Most opponents will avoid Dengar and just tank his one shot per round and at worst take 4 dice if Dengar can get a range 1 front arc shot (good luck getting that position and having any mods). This means your remaining ships have to work extra hard and scum as a faction has ships that run independently so trying to run something to "support" Dengar is not easy to achieve either.

Other combo's like Palob and Fenn, Kavil & 4LOM, it doesn't matter - the lack of firepower in the JM5k along with the other drawbacks just make it GARBAGE no matter what combo. Something I think could be fixed with a change to the unique upgrade that adds a 3 dice front arc - points costed appropriately (a similar upgrade on the hawk is 18 but Moldy Crow has an extra ability baked in).

Perhaps I just don't have the skills to make it work at the moment - actually that is most likely the case

If someone flies it and makes it work I would live to hear about - happy to learn.

BTW I only own 1 of them and like others have said I only started playing well after all the 1.0 nerfs. I have no interest in running JM5k spam.

I was just hoping the ship would be playable - not necessarily an auto-include - just able to sort of earn its points.

We shall see how useful it is in coming tournaments but, being a betting man, I seriously doubt we will be seeing it in many Top 8/16 lists in the near future.