If you put r5-p8 on, the cartel executioner is a solid ship. At 3pts, contraband cybernetics is worth putting on now too. That gets you a tanky ship that hits hard and can keep arc and mods on that one turn where you really have to kturn

1 hour ago, gadwag said:

If you put r5-p8 on, the cartel executioner is a solid ship. At 3pts, contraband cybernetics is worth putting on now too. That gets you a tanky ship that hits hard and can keep arc and mods on that one turn where you really have to kturn

I came here to say exactly this. R5-P8 makes this ship truly competitive & is auto-include. 43 + 4 = 47 points

I3 does have good value in this meta. The single 4-K turn is very painful and is the ships Achilles heal. Don't fly more than one in a list. I flew the ship last night with R5-P8. Can confirm, is good.

A few hopeful points:

• Torani does make good use of cluster missiles, but that's an edge case
• Plasma torpedoes are an option soon, and that may be a good idea on a Kimo for the price, especially since lining up that arc means the token-reliant target is going to be pretty upset with the results. >:) Low init and no passive sensors is still trouble though.
• If Brobots were to become a thing again, I'd enjoy hunting them with Kimogilas. >:D

With the price cut, I'm tempted to try 4 Cartel Executioners with Proton Rockets.

It's not subtle, but it's hard to overstate the level of pain being caught in a boresight by one of those things is going to cause, and a crossfire of 4 of them suddenly becomes a lot harder to elude.

On 7/1/2019 at 7:23 AM, K13R4N said:

Are we getting to the point in this game where unless a big points decrease happens some ships are just not even going to be tried after a points change?

Yes, but it's not a new thing. There were a lot of ships that were "Dead on Arrival" to the tournament crowd. These ships pretty much don't exist for a lot of people. Either they didn't buy them or they have a mental wall against them that they are "bad". There are a number of ships like this, including the Kihraxz Fighter. Certain people will just never try them, unless they are reduced in points and a new broken combo comes out.

On 7/1/2019 at 10:40 AM, ficklegreendice said:

...and I know people like to bring up blocking, but blocking happens FAR less often than...just not blocking?

Errrr.....maybe in your games. Blocking is a key strategy in many of my lists and I block at least a couple of times every game.

On 7/1/2019 at 5:10 PM, Wazat said:

I loves me my kimogilas. They are generally not meta-competitive, but at casual night they're monsters.

I play only non-meta. If I didn't come here, I wouldn't even know what the meta is. I go read a thread like this and it seems I am playing such a different game from everyone else. I am happier for it, too. I rarely see only a few high Init aces as a list.

When I want to play a Hutt list, it's good for bringing in a bruiser with Scyks and Kihraxzes.

===

The dial being bad? Check it against all the other medium based ships. It's not a bad dial. I think only the Aggressors and Firespray have better.

I agree that the Missile slot is not very useful. Cluster Missiles are about the only thing I can think of. Maybe that new Diamond-Boron Missile? The Torpedoes are really expensive. For being an ordnance carrier with a White Reload action, it doesn't really need ordnance.

They seem... okay, but not amazing? It'd be nice if they had a couple more pilots. Hopefully when they do card packs or the 2.0 re-release!

A friend of mine built a Cluster Torani, Torkhil, 2xExecutioner build that's actually pretty solid!

I played Asajj + Torani + Jakku last night and had fun. Ironically I never got a cluster missile off despite flying a droid swarm! I just never had 2 ships in arc at range 1-2 (always long range or only one ship). My opponent spread his droids out a lot to avoid the clusters and getting multiple ships in Torani's bullseye. I still won though, so maybe he'd have been better moving in a unit for maximum firepower. He really hurt my ships when he had lots of shots aimed at them.

The Jakku actually had a grand old time too. And Hate Asajj still felt pretty viable despite the points change. I think I'll swap out Unkar crew for a Deadman's Switch instead, since he didn't get much use this game... though that may be a fluke.

It felt really good to be flying three of my favorite ships again. **** the meta, these ships are FUN!

I've found that in miniature wargames, what you play is usually determined by why your playing. A WAAC player will always do the number crunching and formulas and such for maximum effect while a for fun player goes with whats cool or what chips look cool. Your average player is somewhere in the middle.... until tourney time.

Torani is female, just sayin....

On 7/1/2019 at 6:16 PM, buckero0 said:

but at I3, getting an ace stuck in bullseye isn't going to happen very often and you only get one APT

Depends on your squad and flying. Recently I flew against one of the really good players in the scene (he had the Vader, Fel +2 bomber combo). His Soontir had the choice of going too near my skilled bombardier Sixxa with his ion turret, prox mines, seismics and Jostero trailing behind or trying to run to the other flank passing and dodging my 2 Crack Kimos. He went there but guessed wrong, and one of the Kimos evaporated Soontir by oneshotting.

On 7/2/2019 at 3:10 AM, BVRCH said:

4x Cartels with expert handling and contraband cybernetics is a thing now though. That could be alright. Predator/crackshot/marksmanship doubles down on their ability as well. There are some OK options for a 4 of list now.

I am not convinced. I flew 4 Arcs, with Sinker in the squadron, so all had the chance for independent and bump resistant modding attacks. Guess what, medium bases can block, but are even more easily blocked and bump-trained and then melted. At least the Arcs can shoot backwards....and I retired that squad. Also try to arrange 4 mediums in a meaningful starting position in relation to the coming obstacles within range 1 off the board edge. That is quite easily exploitated if your opponent has fast ships.

I said that already in 1st ed, wish that the M12L had boost. Oftentimes you want to slightly angle the bullseye, esp if you have several bullseyes on the field. And they would have the zoom to escape dire situations and zip around obstacles. I mean there are basically a giant engine with guns and magazines and a cockpit attached, look at that exhaust.. .

I sometimes gave my auzitucks and kimogilas Engine Upgrade in 1E, but not anymore. But I do sometimes roll my ally to block my own ship, to try to adjust where that bullseye will point.

I've found I get stuff in bullseye more often than people expect. You just can't dodge it all the time and still manage the stuff you need, like keeping foes in arc and not getting killboxed by the rest of the team.

41 minutes ago, EVIL INC said:

I've found that in miniature wargames, what you play is usually determined by why your playing. A WAAC player will always do the number crunching and formulas and such for maximum effect while a for fun player goes with whats cool or what chips look cool. Your average player is somewhere in the middle.... until tourney time.

Put me down for "filthy casual". I have by far the most fun in casual games, and the top-meta fleets tend to be a drag. Not only are rebel beef and droid swarms etc incredibly tedious to slowly try to kill, but after seeing the same list a dozen times, because of course everyone is flying it, I start internally screaming for variety. Casual night is where the fun is. Though I am pretty decent against ace lists, and on the opponent's end they take a lot of skill and effort to fly competently, so I'm more open to fighting them.

It's odd, I'll do a lot of number-crunching and min-maxing in other games, but they're invariably single-player video games. It's fun to optimize against a closed system and computer players. Something about playing against other people has me wanting to do fun, relaxed, and silly stuff, not win at any cost. I've also put more time into this single game than any other game in my life, be it board, tabletop, or video games, and that time has pushed me further and further into casual heathen land. Strange how that's happened.

I think a medium base is a huge determent to a ship. It was almost like the middle pilot skill where the middle value was the worse one. Small ones can move around obstacles better and are harder to put in arc, large ones have faster movement. Medium ones get the worse of both worlds.

2 hours ago, Wazat said:

I sometimes gave my auzitucks and kimogilas Engine Upgrade in 1E, but not anymore. But I do sometimes roll my ally to block my own ship, to try to adjust where that bullseye will point.

I've found I get stuff in bullseye more often than people expect. You just can't dodge it all the time and still manage the stuff you need, like keeping foes in arc and not getting killboxed by the rest of the team.

Put me down for "filthy casual". I have by far the most fun in casual games, and the top-meta fleets tend to be a drag. Not only are rebel beef and droid swarms etc incredibly tedious to slowly try to kill, but after seeing the same list a dozen times, because of course everyone is flying it, I start internally screaming for variety. Casual night is where the fun is. Though I am pretty decent against ace lists, and on the opponent's end they take a lot of skill and effort to fly competently, so I'm more open to fighting them.

It's odd, I'll do a lot of number-crunching and min-maxing in other games, but they're invariably single-player video games. It's fun to optimize against a closed system and computer players. Something about playing against other people has me wanting to do fun, relaxed, and silly stuff, not win at any cost. I've also put more time into this single game than any other game in my life, be it board, tabletop, or video games, and that time has pushed me further and further into casual heathen land. Strange how that's happened.

I always go with what I think is cool at the moment or what looks neat.

Yes, in 40k I would even take a unit of rough riders just because I loved their story line in my army and was very pleased with how thy came out when I converted and painted then. Even though they were one of the worst units in the game.

2 hours ago, Marinealver said:

I think a medium base is a huge determent to a ship. It was almost like the middle pilot skill where the middle value was the worse one. Small ones can move around obstacles better and are harder to put in arc, large ones have faster movement. Medium ones get the worse of both worlds.

I personally like the medium bases. They add more depth to the game, and feel like a more maneuverable large(r) base. Plus they put more of a divide between 8 hitpoint heavy fighters (B-Wing), and 9/10 hitpoint gunships.