In 1.0 one of my favourite lists was 2 Kimos and Thweek. Now in 2.0 I have played the Kimogila once maybe twice since release. With the recent point change the generic went down 1 point which isn't much but as all good stuff went up this leaves the question maybe it could be usful again?

The biggest problem I think they have is they are paying for the reload action which on a 3 dice attack isnt worth it at I3. Another Problem is they only have I3/4 pilots and we all know I1/5/6 are the best Initiatives. Lastly I think because it isnt a famous or "acey fun" ship less people are wanting to fly it and have success.

3 dice attack - alot of health - medium base - struggle against aces - Jouster - above average dial considering

The next game I play I will be trying them out: x2 Cartels w/ Homing Missles and R2 x2 Black sun assassins w/ Crackshot

I understand how hard bullseye is but I though I would ask the community and find out why no one else plays the Cartels at least?

Its crap dial.

No, seriously. It's garbage.

19 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Its crap dial.

No, seriously. It's garbage.

What makes you say that?

White 2 and 3 hard is better then alot (no ace ships)
It has the 1 forward
Red 1 Hard if you need too
It can turn around (4k)

Yes, It doesn't have slops/talon roll and not very fast (4/5 forward) but thats it right?

Not saying its God style but does the job, right?

Its not too bothered by little blue as the only way to get stressed is a barrell roll and 4k

19 minutes ago, K13R4N said:

I understand how hard bullseye is

It's really not as hard as you might think. Honestly, it's because I never got around to buying them.

The Killergorilla is tough, and whilst "we all know I1/5/6 are the best Initiatives" the fact that the Cartel Executioner comes with a talent slot by default is nice - it's rare that 'elite' generics aren't initiative 3. Dead To Rights does pair very well with Predator , making even the primary weapon scary, and 4 such ships makes it quite hard to avoid everyone's bullseye.

The dial is pretty awful - the speed 2 blue banks and only single end-around-manoeuvre make it basically a TIE/sa but worse, and the latter has white barrel roll/link/target lock, which covers a multitude of sins. Probably the single biggest problem is R4 astromech being locked to small ships, so there's not a huge amount you can do about it.

Contraband Cybernetics getting cheaper might help, letting you pull its K-turn and still focus.

32 minutes ago, K13R4N said:

 The biggest problem I think they have is they are paying for the reload action which on a 3 dice attack isnt worth it at I3

I'm not convinced it's worth it, but it is the only heavy-weight ordnance carrier (K-wing, Punisher, Scurrg) to get talent slots, so the combination of Torpedoes and Saturation Salvo might be worth a look. VERY expensive, though.

9 minutes ago, K13R4N said:

What makes you say that?

White 2 and 3 hard is better then alot (no ace ships)
It has the 1 forward
Red 1 Hard if you need too
It can turn around (4k)

Yes, It doesn't have slops/talon roll and not very fast (4/5 forward) but thats it right?

Not saying its God style but does the job, right?

Its not too bothered by little blue as the only way to get stressed is a barrell roll and 4k

Because it is a medium ship, not a small one. It has terrible blues, no white reposition or white 1 hard. There's also no 4 forward. That's not good for a medium ship with only front arc.

ITS CRAP DIAL and its crap actions and its crap medium base

any other questions?

15 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

ITS CRAP DIAL and its crap actions and its crap medium base

any other questions?

Are we getting to the point in this game where unless a big points decrease happens some ships are just not even going to be tried after a points change?

For all we know 43 points now allows 7 points on each ship x4 of them could become the meta. 4 with Prockets for example is now legal. (I am definetly NOT suggesting the kimo is good) but rather getting the feel we have had our minds made up that the kimo is bad, YT2400 is bad ect.

It's just not very good.

Compare it with the generic Republic ARC, which is a point cheaper. And still very vulnerable to straight up getting PS killed.

I flew Torani, Palob and 4-LOM at a local store competition over the weekend using the new points updates. Torani held her own. Stress messed her up in one game vs death troopers. She just couldn’t move far enough away to get her arc around. The biggest problem I had was being I4. Everyone I played was running I5 or more with a couple of exceptions. I think the problem is when you look at the 60 points you paid for it and then you can get Old T for cheaper and I5.

I had a ton of fun flying her so I class that as a win.

It's hella ugly

B-Wings are probably better at a similar role. Smaller base works out well for them; they can knife fight while a Kimo cannot. They've got linked focus actions off their white (rather than red) barrel roll.

But the Kimo probably isn't too bad, overall. Cluster Missiles Torani is cute. Dalan Oberos used to have a neat trick with Inertial Dampeners (lose the shield to stall and activate his pilot ability), but I can't say that it's worth the cost anymore after the ID nerf.

An interesting build might be Expert Handling and Contraband Cybernetics. 50 points on an Executioner. That's a medium-base ship with white barrel rolls which can take an action while stressed (once). That'd be an impressive way of blocking and filling space.

But then again, Kihraxz also just got a sizeable buff, and that'll fly better and can equip extra health. The Squad Seven Veteran just got a buff to 46 points, so now 4 of them with Expert Handling is legal, and that's better space filling since it has rear guns.

1 hour ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Its crap dial.

No, seriously. It's garbage.

Not sure I'd call the dial crap. A nearly full-white dial with all three hard turns (two of them white) and a bog-standard 4K isn't too bad. Highest speed straight only being 3 is unfortunate, but not *that* horrible.

I tend to think, rather, the issue comes from the medium base and red barrel roll. The cumulative effect--the ship can't maneuver well--is pretty similar.

We had a fine gentleman flying a Torani-Palob-Seevor-Teroch list for a 6-0 on the Spanish Open this last weekend.

Lets look at three comparable ships in the same faction, the Kimogila, the Y-wing, and the Scurrg. Specificly the hired gun, cartel executioner, and lok revenant.

Y-wing: 2-1-6-2 small, 33pts

Kimogila: 3-1-7-2 medium, 43

Scurrg: 3-1-6-4 medium, 45

The Y-wing and the scurrg both have turret slots and gunner slots, making turret options better already. While none of these have great dials, the scurrg having the best (probably), neither the scurrg or the Y-wing require a bulls-eye arc to get the most out of them. And what repositioning the kimogila has is the awkward medium barrel roll which is less than precise.

All of them could have an astromech, but the Y-wing arguably gets the most use out of the slot since it can use all of them available to the faction.

The Y-wing being on a small base is an advantage over the other two as it makes it a little harder to get arc on (not much because, y-wing).

If you want ordnance, missiles are pretty bad and while the kimogila can run torps it costs between 49 and 56 points for the ship, where a Y-wing can bring them at 37-44 on the cheapest version, 39-46 in our above example, 3 points more than a naked cartel executioner.

What I think it really wants is a cannon slot (Dead to rights+auto blaster, I want it), and access to an upgrade that helps either its dial/maneuverability or helps its stress management seeing as how important its ability to barrel roll is. Expert handling kinda helps but its pretty expensive, and Contraband cybernetics might do the trick, but being a one off is an issue on the kimogila as it really needs its fine manipulation. Asking alot, but a sensor slot would be nice, if only for fire control systems to help its action economy.

TL;DR

While I don't think its awful, the faction has better options to fill its role that are generally cheaper and more effective at putting damage on ships.

p.s. Nym and Torani cost the same naked and while Nym's ability doesn't help with shooting in the slightest, his dial is much better and, once again, he doesn't need to bulls-eye enemy ships to be effective.

19 minutes ago, Kharnete said:

We had a fine gentleman flying a Torani-Palob-Seevor-Teroch list for a 6-0 on the Spanish Open this last weekend.

You don't happen to know/could get the list do you? I would very much like to give that a spin.

21 hours ago, Seraphimtoaster375 said:

You don't happen to know/could get the list do you? I would very much like to give that a spin.

Palob with Debris and title, Seevor, Teroch with Predator, and Torani with Crackshot and R5-TK. 200 points.

I think it is mostly that no one owns them. It was a late wave 1st Ed ship. No 2nd Ed. reprint yet. Not an aesthetically pleasing paint job on an oddly profiled ship.

I've flown this on casual nights. TIEs didn't like it so much. "Pre-July update Points."

M12-L Kimogila Fighter - Cartel Executioner - 55
Cartel Executioner - (44)
Intimidation (3)
Cluster Missiles (5)
Inertial Dampeners (1)
Tactical Scrambler (2)

Kihraxz Fighter - Black Sun Ace - 48
Black Sun Ace - (42)
Crack Shot (1)
Cluster Missiles (5)

Kihraxz Fighter - Black Sun Ace - 48
Black Sun Ace - (42)
Crack Shot (1)
Cluster Missiles (5)

Kihraxz Fighter - Black Sun Ace - 48
Black Sun Ace - (42)
Crack Shot (1)
Cluster Missiles (5)

Total: 199/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

I'm not getting the hate for the dial. It's a nose tackle not a fast rush defensive end.

I love the look of the M12 and I'm constantly trying to get one in a list and feel good about it. But the list of "issues" the ship has is SO long

It's dial - Is "Okay", it's not a bad dial (It's not a Lamda, Punisher or Alpha, about as good as a Tie Aggressor) but it's inability to take R4 does hurt it.

Droids - There are no good droids to take, R3 suffers from the PS Issue, as mention it can't take R4 (R4-P would of been nice), I suppose if you could take R2 and double down on the dis-arm to Reload and Regen (If it's even legal to)

Reload Action - You have to pay additional points for to be able to use it, IF you live long enough to get your initial load off

Red Barrel-roll - Horrible action, no dice mods, still stressed if you fail it... Why bother even trying? No Boost either

No Linked Actions - While we are not a 1st ed levels, the complete lack of linked Actions really hurt this ship (and 2 other Scum Ships), Target Lock - Red B-roll would of been enough

Weapon upgrades - 1 Missile, 1 Torp. Why can they not be Hard points? 2 Missile slots, we get Barrage Rockets, Cannons are very fluffy as well

EPT - This ship allows us to take 2 "rare" EPT's Expert Handling and Saturation Salvo, EH gives us white B-rolls, great, still no dice mods and it costs 4 pts, SS is SIX points? What the actual? Thats on top of the ordnance cost itself, and requires that you burn through your charges quicker, the amount of hoops to just get to use it, THEN you can only force a re-roll of 2 dice.....

It's a Scum ship, allow it to use Generic Astros full stop (Regardless of Faction) and change it to 2 Hardpoints... Even then, the Lok will still be better... Probably

18 minutes ago, Seraphimtoaster375 said:

Kimogila: 3-1-7-2 medium, 43

Scurrg: 3-1-6-4 medium, 45

This was the largest problem with the Kimo. For about ten more days, the Cartel Executioner is 44 points and the Lok Revenant is 43. If you wanted a 3-die medium base ship, the Scurrg was the better choice. After the points change, the Kimo will have better pricing, but people weren't really taking the Loks just for the 3-die primary. I really want Kimos to be good since they were in nearly every Scum list I flew back in 1E (including Thweek + 2 Kimos like the OP).

There are a couple of other problems inhibiting it. The first is the red barrel roll. The barrel roll used to be key for lining up the bullseye arc. But now it is a stressful action, and the medium base requires more room and is trickier to line up. Taking expert handling is four points of bloat (that talent might be over costed on medium and large base ships). Another problem is that it is a munitions carrier that can either take underwhelming missiles that the three die primary probably better than or expensive torpedoes that bloat the cost for which both getting the lock is harder at mid-tier initiative. The dial isn't bad, but every Kimo I flew in 1E had a Unhinged Astromech stapled to it for a better dial. If R4 Astromech wasn't restricted, I would put it on a Kimo, but other than that only the R3 looks decent.

Honestly, the small base restriction on R4 Astromech is odd. ARC-170s, Kimogilas, a Scurrg w/Havoc, and a JM5K w/P1 are the only non-small bases with astromech slots, and it doesn't seems super powerful on any of those. Those medium bases it would be pretty good on, and it would give at least one JM5K a dial worth flying.

8 minutes ago, Shockwave said:

Droids - There are no good droids to take, R3 suffers from the PS Issue, as mention it can't take R4 (R4-P would of been nice), I suppose if you could take R2 and double down on the dis-arm to Reload and Regen (If it's even legal to)

You can take R2 Astro and do both reload and regen as the regen isn't an action. But I agree that it needs a better Astromech. Something on the lines of BT-1.

Kimoglia are absolutely fine; issue was that SCURRG just laughed all over it. I just personally would never fly more than one because I've tried that; medium bases are ******* clunky

I'm gonna go ahead and stress here that the kimoglia is NOT paying for the reload action , it's paying for a base generic at I 3 with a talent slot.

That advantage is difficult to leverage, unless perhaps you slot on into a list already running a bunch of crackshots

35 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:

Honestly, the small base restriction on R4 Astromech is odd. ARC-170s, Kimogilas, a Scurrg w/Havoc, and a JM5K w/P1 are the only non-small bases with astromech slots, and it doesn't seems super powerful on any of those. Those medium bases it would be pretty good on, and it would give at least one JM5K a dial worth flying.

I would absolutely love to have R4 on a JM5K. I know they dont want to change card text with the new system for changing points, but maybe take off the size limit and give it scaling cost on bigger ships. 2/3/4 or even 2/4/6. I'd gladly pay that price to be able to turn right on my U-boat. Back on topic, the Kimogila would love this too. That 2 hard in blue would come in very handy.

4 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

I'm gonna go ahead and stress here that the kimoglia is NOT paying for the reload action , it's paying for a base generic at I 3 with a talent slot.

That advantage is difficult to leverage, unless perhaps you slot on into a list already running a bunch of crackshots

43pts can buy you

3 Red, 2 Green, 4 Hull, 2 Shields, Talent, Torp, Astro, Mod, with White Focus, TL and Barrel Roll, S-foils and a better dial on a small ship

OR

3 Red, 1 Green, 7 Hull, 2 Shields, Talent, Torp, Missile, Astro, Mod with White Focus, TL, Reload and Red B-Roll

The first one also has access to better Astro's.

Not to mention that the Reload required that you spend MORE points to actually use it... You are definitely paying for it in some manner.

18 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:

Honestly, the small base restriction on R4 Astromech is odd. ARC-170s, Kimogilas, a Scurrg w/Havoc, and a JM5K w/P1 are the only non-small bases with astromech slots, and it doesn't seems super powerful on any of those. Those medium bases it would be pretty good on, and it would give at least one JM5K a dial worth flying.

Wow! That is intresting. Only 4 ships that are medium/large with a astro slot.

To add to this FFG also gave us R4 on Dengar in a quick build card? so it could be they thought about it but decided against as it adds the element of a must pick card from 1.0. If the Jump could have a R4 it would be taken over everything everytime and i get the feel tehy don't wont that.

10 minutes ago, Seraphimtoaster375 said:

That 2 hard in blue would come in very handy.

Lets not forget about a white 1 hard 😱 !

.....Then you remember we are talking about a balance change... 1 week after we have just had one 😂 .

3 minutes ago, Seraphimtoaster375 said:

I would absolutely love to have R$ on a JM5K. I know they dont want to change card text with the new system for changing points, but maybe take off the size limit and give it scaling cost on bigger ships. 2/3/4 or even 2/4/6. I'd gladly pay that price to be able to turn right on my U-boat. Back on topic, the Kimogila would love this too. That 2 hard in blue woul  d come in very handy. 

Yeah, scaling by base size seems like a great idea. The 2 hard blue and white 1 hard would be nice for the Kimo. And being able to turn a JM5K would be wonderful.

7 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

medium bases are ******* clunky

Medium bases are great. The Firespray, TIE Punisher, and Aggressor all feel great. Scurrg and ARC-170 are nice. The first three have boost which is was makes them feel great, the second two have multiple arcs (typically) while the Kimo is trying to leverage a tiny window on a single arc to maximize efficiency. G1A pilots not named 4-lom have similar problems, but can leverage the hard stop and numerous shields for strength.

The kimo has some good points. It's a good blocker with a good primary attack and dead to rights is a fun bonus (but with low int, medium base and red broll tricky to pull off) . I played them a fair bit when 2nd edition came out, most often flying 2 with boba. Their 9 hp is good (but they are crit magnets) and they can do some damage.

The problem is that the kimo doesn't get much use out of its upgrade slots. Missiles are worthless on a 3 attack dice ship, its pricey as a torp carrier and scum has better options for this. This combined with low int means that they aren't much use as ordnance carriers. Until contraband went down there were no illicts worth taking and other than R3 the astros aren't worth taking. I feel this means if you take them your paying points for a lot of stuff you don't get any use out of.

Also named pilots are overpriced imo. Dalan at 3pts more than generic is a waste. Just take the generic and spend the extra points on upgrades like R3 or contraband.