Hi All,

Provided you have FR2+, can you commit 1 force die to both the offensive and defensive force control upgrades in the same round?

I have reviewed the forums on this topic and it seems, RAW, that when you activate " the power " i.e., Sense, you may apply any committed die you have available for the purchased upgrades. The key sentence in the FORCE POWERS section of the F&D book on p282 says, "using the power requires one action in structured time." The power in this instance is: Sense. The control upgrades don't say they cannot be used in conjunction with each other and are considered "upgrades" of "the power". And the committing Force die section doesn't say you cannot commit more than one die, only that the description will tell you how many you can commit at any given point.

Has Sam clarified the intent on this? The way I read it, the power is activated and the control upgrades (both the defense and offense) along with it provided the criteria is met, which in this instance is having the Force die to commit.

Edit: to further complicate the situation, the Control upgrades for sense are also referred to as "powers", which begs the question, what the **** is a power?

I had a player with this upgrade and we ruled he did it at once.

I think this was answered here:

May the Force be with you!

Fred

As GM Fred's link shows, you would need two actions. However, you can commit more than one dice to the same effect/upgrade, e.g. use enhance and commit three in one action to increase Brawn by three.

Much appreciated, Fred.

Sadly (for some at least), committing Force dice to separate effects is a separate action (unless the upgrade deliberately says otherwise). So with regard to Sense, you'd need two actions to get both Control Upgrades working, making the offensive upgrade rather impractical for most combats as by the time you'd get that and the defensive upgrade going, the fight's about half over; in terms of action economy, you're better off just using that action to make an attack roll.

Only time it makes sense to have both effects active is if you're going into a big boss fight and/or a one-on-one combat where you've got a bit of time before the fur starts flying to commit those Force dice; that's like what Luke as a PC would have done prior to engaging Vader in ESB, possibly in RotJ too depending on how you read the scene.

But you can for 2 strain do a force power as a manuever. There is a talent in both Seer and Master that allow this. So you could do both in one round if you have the talent.

6 hours ago, Daeglan said:

But you can for 2 strain do a force power as a manuever. There is a talent in both Seer and Master that allow this. So you could do both in one round if you have the talent.

The Force is My Ally. It’s in Sage too.

On 7/1/2019 at 3:29 AM, Rogues Rule said:

As GM Fred's link shows, you would need two actions. However, you can commit more than one dice to the same effect/upgrade, e.g. use enhance and commit three in one action to increase Brawn by three.

I don't think that's the case actually, since any ongoing effect that lets you commit a chosen number of dice uses the language: "Commit one or more [Force Die]."

The ongoing effects that are written like: "Commit [Force Die]" let you commit only a single force die.

Though you could argue that because some of those single dice options say "The user may not activate this multiple times" in their long text, the ones that don't can be activated multiple times. I think this would be a fair interpretation, but it would take multiple actions to stack them just like stacking different ongoing effects, since each 'instance' of the power only lets you use one force die.

14 minutes ago, DarthHammer said:

I don't think that's the case actually, since any ongoing effect that lets you commit a chosen number of dice uses the language: "Commit one or more [Force Die]."

The ongoing effects that are written like: "Commit [Force Die]" let you commit only a single force die.

Though you could argue that because some of those single dice options say "The user may not activate this multiple times" in their long text, the ones that don't can be activated multiple times. I think this would be a fair interpretation, but it would take multiple actions to stack them just like stacking different ongoing effects, since each 'instance' of the power only lets you use one force die.

Commiting a force die requires an action. You cant commit to multiple effects in one action. But you can commit multiple dice to the same effect.

1 minute ago, Daeglan said:

Commiting a force die requires an action. You cant commit to multiple effects in one action. But you can commit multiple dice to the same effect.

Only if specifically allowed to by that power though. Otherwise you either simply cannot commit more than one (the more strict interpretation) or have to use multiple actions to commit those dice like you would for different effects (the more accommodating interpretation.)

On 9/15/2015 at 10:00 PM, LethalDose said:

This one surprised me. Apparently, if you can apply the benefits of a "Commit Force Dice" power multiple times when activated unless it is explicitly disallowed in the upgrade/power's description. In other words, the "[X] benefit per die committed" language seen in Misdirect's 'auto-threat' control upgrade is implicit in all text where it's not explicitly disallowed.

Rules Question:

The ongoing force powers allow characters to commit force dice to activate benefits. Is it possible to commit *more* force dice than is listed to receive the a greater benefit from the power? This, of course, provided the power does not explicitly forbid it. Example: A Jedi has Agi 2, Force rating 3, and Enhance with all of it's upgrades. Is it allowed for the Jedi, with a single activation of enhance's Agi control upgrade, to commit 2 (or all 3) of his force dice to said upgrade, increasing his Agi from 2 to 4 (or to 5, if all force dice are used). If not, is there *any* way for the Jedi to use Enhance's ongoing effects to increase either Brawn or Agility by *more* than one point.

Sam's Response:

Unless the upgrade states otherwise, you may commit additional Force dice to increase the power. Thus, in your example, you may increase your Agility by as much as plus three, in the scenario you describe.

Additional Note:

In a further response, he clarified that this is not considered multiple activations, but activating the effect once and triggering it multiple times.

From the Developer Answered Questions thread in the Edge forum.