1 hour ago, Daeglan said:

Another thing to consider is engaged is basically close enough to make melee strikes. What people who have never been in a melee fight don't recognize is close enough for melee combat is a WAY larger area than people think. like in a couple seconds I can cross 30 or 40 feet and make multiple strikes. so really engaged is a bigger area than you think.

I've heard Engaged described as being the size of a boxing ring, and that works for me.

1 minute ago, HappyDaze said:

I've heard Engaged described as being the size of a boxing ring, and that works for me.

That is still too small. I can cover double that area and make multiple strikes. But it is at least that big. I would say double both directions.

1 minute ago, Daeglan said:

That is still too small. I can cover double that area and make multiple strikes. But it is at least that big. I would say double both directions.

IMO, "cover double that area" is using a Move maneuver to enter Engaged. Yes, you can do it in one turn, but you're still moving to a significant degree to do it.

6 hours ago, Daeglan said:

Another thing to consider is engaged is basically close enough to make melee strikes. What people who have never been in a melee fight don't recognize is close enough for melee combat is a WAY larger area than people think. like in a couple seconds I can cross 30 or 40 feet and make multiple strikes. so really engaged is a bigger area than you think.

This.

The range bands were deliberately left nebulous, and can grow or shrink as the encounter calls for.

I can get that for a lot of gamers, force of habit has many of us treating "engaged" as only being several feet away from the intended opponent, simply because for most of the past few decades, that's been the standard, especially where games leaning more towards the tactical simulation of things are concerned, which itself is due to most game's action economy and (moving more than a couple of feet takes a specific type of action) and that combat rounds are measured in seconds in those games vs. FFG's system using a far more nebulous length for a structured encounter round.

8 hours ago, Daeglan said:

Another thing to consider is engaged is basically close enough to make melee strikes. What people who have never been in a melee fight don't recognize is close enough for melee combat is a WAY larger area than people think. like in a couple seconds I can cross 30 or 40 feet and make multiple strikes. so really engaged is a bigger area than you think.

And also considering that a round of combat is roughly a minute. I can cross quite a bit of ground to punch you and retreat in that 60 seconds.

Heck, when I was a fencer I could advance/advance/lunge and cover a couple of yards/metres, and that was over the course of a handful of seconds. Give me 10 times that and I can be "engaged" with someone quite a distance…but obviously less than Short range 😛

13 hours ago, Daeglan said:

Another thing to consider is engaged is basically close enough to make melee strikes. What people who have never been in a melee fight don't recognize is close enough for melee combat is a WAY larger area than people think. like in a couple seconds I can cross 30 or 40 feet and make multiple strikes. so really engaged is a bigger area than you think.

The book presumes that you take one maneuver to go from short range (up to 15 yards or so) to enter engaged range, from where you can then take a swing with your sword or whatever, so the "I can cross 30-40 feet in a couple of seconds, therefore engaged is larger" is a non sequitur. In order to make a melee attack (without moving, which would constitute a maneuver) you must be within engaged range which means that within a step or so, you could punch your opponent.

I have done mock sword duels and what-not with friends, so I understand what you are saying in that regard, but in order to swing my sword at my opponent I still must be within 2 yards or so, even if I can run 10 yards in 1 second.

56 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

The book presumes that you take one maneuver to go from short range (up to 15 yards or so) to enter engaged range, from where you can then take a swing with your sword or whatever, so the "I can cross 30-40 feet in a couple of seconds, therefore engaged is larger" is a non sequitur. In order to make a melee attack (without moving, which would constitute a maneuver) you must be within engaged range which means that within a step or so, you could punch your opponent.

I have done mock sword duels and what-not with friends, so I understand what you are saying in that regard, but in order to swing my sword at my opponent I still must be within 2 yards or so, even if I can run 10 yards in 1 second.

Sure but I dont limit engaged to 2 yards. and really if you know what you are doing 2 steps can cover a huge area with a sword. like I can hit someone with my sword and take 2 steps and hit someone else 30 feet away. in 2 seconds.

Just now, Daeglan said:

Sure but I dont limit engaged to 2 yards. and really if you know what you are doing 2 steps can cover a huge area with a sword. like I can hit someone with my sword and take 2 steps and hit someone else 30 feet away. in 2 seconds.

You can go fifteen feet in one step? I'm impressed (maybe a little bit of skeptical sarcasm there) . I get what you are saying, but the rulebook would count that as a maneuver. Also I don't think you would argue that you can stand in one place, swing a sword, and hit a guy 10 yards away (or even 5 yards, for that matter).

8 feet between me and my first target you lean to hit them 3 foot arm 3 foot blade. 2 6 foot steps and lean in to hit the other target. on the wrist. It is doable by an experienced swordsman.

3 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

8 feet between me and my first target you lean to hit them 3 foot arm 3 foot blade. 2 6 foot steps and lean in to hit the other target. on the wrist. It is doable by an experienced swordsman.

Fair point, I would consider 3-3.5 yards to be the outside edge of doable for engaged, but it depends on the weapon, a knife is not 3 feet long, but a vibro pole-axe might give you 4 feet of reach.

I disagree about the second target though, the book only allows 1 attack per turn.

2 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Fair point, I would consider 3-3.5 yards to be the outside edge of doable for engaged, but it depends on the weapon, a knife is not 3 feet long, but a vibro pole-axe might give you 4 feet of reach.

but what's the 2 6 foot steps about? You said 8 feet.

Ok consider this. In the Tueler drill. Which a Police instructor demonstrated a knife weilder 21 feet away could land a lethal blow on a cop before they can draw their weapon and fire(about 3 seconds). I dont consider engaged to be the area you can cover with a weapon if your feet are nailed to the ground. as most proper hand to hand strikes involve a step to begin with. So for me engaged range is a minimum of 20 feet away and more like should cover to about 30 feet away. and short range is probably out to about 50 feet.

The Manoeuvre to move out of engaged is disengaging from the opponent safely.

Also I doubt you could hit someone 8 feet away without a spear or other pole-arm.

14 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Fair point, I would consider 3-3.5 yards to be the outside edge of doable for engaged, but it depends on the weapon, a knife is not 3 feet long, but a vibro pole-axe might give you 4 feet of reach.

but what's the 2 6 foot steps about? You said 8 feet.

the 2 steps to me is just the normal amount people **** easily. I dont consider people to be static.

3 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Ok consider this. In the Tueler drill. Which a Police instructor demonstrated a knife weilder 21 feet away could land a lethal blow on a cop before they can draw their weapon and fire(about 3 seconds). I dont consider engaged to be the area you can cover with a weapon if your feet are nailed to the ground. as most proper hand to hand strikes involve a step to begin with. So for me engaged range is a minimum of 20 feet away and more like should cover to about 30 feet away. and short range is probably out to about 50 feet.

So the knife wielder is at short range: he takes one maneuver to move into engaged, then he attacks with his action.

2 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

the 2 steps to me is just the normal amount people **** easily. I dont consider people to be static.

I edited what I said cause I realized that you were referring to a second target. I edited it to:

19 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

I disagree about the second target though, the book only allows 1 attack per turn.

What I originally thought was that you were saying 3 foot reach + 3 foot sword + 2 (6 foot) steps = 8 feet.

I also don't consider people to be static, however, the book would count any ground-covering movement as a maneuver, with the exception of just shifting position a little which might be an incidental. (kinda funny how we got from hyperdrives to melee combat, it doesn't seem like there would be a logical progression between the two )