Who are the most cost effective aces in the game?

my picks

INITIATIVE 6 = Wedge 53pts or Soontir Fel 53pts

INITIATIVE 5 = Obi-wan 47pts or Lulo 43pts

INITIATIVE 4 = Mace Windu 45pts

INITIATIVE 3 = Colonel Jendon 46pts

Honorable Mentions: Talonbane is 50pts for an initiative 5 which is actually pretty cheap. There is a reason FFG dropped the other Khiraxz fighters but not TB. The ship itself isnt nearly as good as an x-wing (no s-foils and a worse dial) but it hits hard.

Duchess is extremely cost effective for I5.

You're going to have to define what you mean by Ace.

Is it someone with high initiative?

Is it someone that can dodge their way to end game?

Is it a good solo piece, etc...

17 minutes ago, Octarine-08 said:

You're going to have to define what you mean by Ace.

Is it someone with high initiative?

Is it someone that can dodge their way to end game?

Is it a good solo piece, etc...

Id define an ace as a unique pilot. One per squad allowed. Aces differ from generic pilots are more than one, often as many as you can afford based on points.

Pilots like 4-LOM, Torkil and Palob are all aces, even though they have only 3 initiative.

Surprised you didn’t mention Tallie at 36. Her pilot ability isn’t exactly amazing, but that price for I5 on an RZ-2 is stupendous. With Advanced Optics and Heroic she is still cheaper than L’ulo, has comparable average damage, and retains the third green die.

Also, while I3 isn’t often considered an “ace,” I think Ahsoka deserves special mention. Sure, she’s the only Jedi who didn’t get any price changes, but she also has easily one of the best pilot abilities in the entire game. I3 also lets her either act as a blocker against higher I ships, or an ace against lower PS generics. She’s almost always a good choice, imho.

Jake has to be included at I4, he´s a bargain for 36 points.

8 hours ago, FatherTurin said:

Surprised you didn’t mention Tallie at 36. Her pilot ability isn’t exactly amazing, but that price for I5 on an RZ-2 is stupendous. With Advanced Optics and Heroic she is still cheaper than L’ulo, has comparable average damage, and retains the third green die.

Also, while I3 isn’t often considered an “ace,” I think Ahsoka deserves special mention. Sure, she’s the only Jedi who didn’t get any price changes, but she also has easily one of the best pilot abilities in the entire game. I3 also lets her either act as a blocker against higher I ships, or an ace against lower PS generics. She’s almost always a good choice, imho.

i dont have an in depth knowledge of every faction. Scum only player. Basing my ratings on what I have played and played against and seen feature regularly in top16 cuts. Good to know there are still some gems out there that get overlooked.

While Initiative 3 isn’t remarkable, Captain Seevor rings in at a meager 30pts with no need of any upgrades, and gets you one of the dirtiest Scummy tricks in the game. “Not in my bullseye, and I attack or defend from you? Eat a jam, sucker!”

10 hours ago, Da_Brown_Bomber said:

Id define an ace as a unique pilot. One per squad allowed. Aces differ from generic pilots are more than one, often as many as you can afford based on points.

Pilots like 4-LOM, Torkil and Palob are all aces, even though they have only 3 initiative.

You don't know what an Ace is. You clearkly mean who is the best unique/limited pilot based on cost.

Aces are more accurately defined as end game ships or closers.

35 minutes ago, RunnerAZ said:

You don't know what an Ace is. You clearkly mean who is the best unique/limited pilot based on cost.

Aces are more accurately defined as end game ships or closers.

FFg does not have an official definition that I am aware of. So this is open for debate. Initiative 3 isnt great for closing at the end of the game unless it is the highest remaining ship on the board. Of course higher initiative ships (5 and 6) are better for ending games but FFG is making some moves towards init 4 ships having relevant abilities now - just look at some of the republic Jedi or even a ship pilot like Kad Solus for Scum.

Fenn, Soontir, Vader, Wedge etc are your typical high initiative aces but lower initiative pilots can still close out a game, its just not seen very often/much harder to do.

The community more or less agrees that an ace is a ship whose primary survival method is not to get shot. In practice, this typically involves high initiative and multiple repositioning to ensure you can dodge arcs. Ships that can do this reliably need to be flown well, hence the term "Ace."

Soontir is the classic example of this and currently the most cost effective. You can get cheaper aces, but not nearly as effective at ace-play. I6 and double repositioning along with a fantastic dial give him the ability to survive much longer than his 3 health should allow. Midnight is the only cheaper I6, but lacking a boost makes it much more difficult to dodge arcs.

Resistance A-Wings are all super efficient and can arc dodge well even at lower initiatives because they don't have to engage directly to have guns on target. They aren't quite as cost-effrctive as a well-flown Fel, but you can fit a lot of them in for an ace-heavy squad whereas Soontir basically has just a small list of Vader, Whisper, and Duchess to choose from as partners.

2 hours ago, RunnerAZ said:

You don't know what an Ace is. You clearkly mean who is the best unique/limited pilot based on cost.

Aces are more accurately defined as end game ships or closers.

Hey now, how are they supposed to know since @catachanninja hasn't posted it yet?

Nien and Ello. Fight me.

2 hours ago, hargleblarg said:

The community more or less agrees that an ace is a ship whose primary survival method is not to get shot. In practice, this typically involves high initiative and multiple repositioning to ensure you can dodge arcs. Ships that can do this reliably need to be flown well, hence the term "Ace."

Soontir is the classic example of this and currently the most cost effective. You can get cheaper aces, but not nearly as effective at ace-play. I6 and double repositioning along with a fantastic dial give him the ability to survive much longer than his 3 health should allow. Midnight is the only cheaper I6, but lacking a boost makes it much more difficult to dodge arcs.

Resistance A-Wings are all super efficient and can arc dodge well even at lower initiatives because they don't have to engage directly to have guns on target. They aren't quite as cost-effrctive as a well-flown Fel, but you can fit a lot of them in for an ace-heavy squad whereas Soontir basically has just a small list of Vader, Whisper, and Duchess to choose from as partners.

By this standard, the 3 ship Luke / Wedge / Dutch list doesn't count as an Ace list, which suggests this is a rather bad standard.

Expensive named ship, typically with higher than average PS = Ace. I'm fairly sure this is a more universal opinion.


Cracken's great value for money, albeit not too fancy. L'ulo is my favorite dedicated dogfighting Ace.

14 minutes ago, President Jyrgunkarrd said:

By this standard, the 3 ship Luke / Wedge / Dutch list doesn't count as an Ace list, which suggests this is a rather bad standard.

Why? That list is trench run, wherein three rebel ships with torps fly at the enemy and do a massive amount of damage at high initiative. An ace is a pilot that leverages high initiative for enhanced maneuverability, which trench run typically doesn't. A high initiative ship that relies on init killing is a jouster, not an ace. Low init ships can be aces, but typically aren't because they lack the consistent board state knowledge to avoid getting shot.

20 minutes ago, President Jyrgunkarrd said:

By this standard, the 3 ship Luke / Wedge / Dutch list doesn't count as an Ace list, which suggests this is a rather bad standard.

Expensive named ship, typically with higher than average PS = Ace. I'm fairly sure this is a more universal opinion.

None of those ships are aces though. That's an alpha strike list.

4 minutes ago, hargleblarg said:

None of those ships are aces though. That's an alpha strike list.

Aye, and I suppose no true Scotsman ever put sugar in their tea.

6 minutes ago, President Jyrgunkarrd said:

Aye, and I suppose no true Scotsman ever put sugar in their tea.

We aren't changing the definition: trench run was never an ace list, that's not how it works. Wedge Like and thane (another common inclusion) can all be aces in thier own right, and two of them were doing well as an ace list the archetype as a whole does not function as an ace list. Furthermore, when it does it meet the criteria provided above: repositioning to avoid damage. That definition is quite sound, and the generally accepted use of the term.

1 hour ago, Skargoth said:

Nien and Ello. Fight me.

Ok. With a naked Silencer. Because when the interceptor's principle weakness is addressed, it becomes too much of a ship that can solo lists.

7 minutes ago, Do I need a Username said:

We aren't changing the definition: trench run was never an ace list, that's not how it works. Wedge Like and thane (another common inclusion) can all be aces in thier own right, and two of them were doing well as an ace list the archetype as a whole does not function as an ace list. Furthermore, when it does it meet the criteria provided above: repositioning to avoid damage. That definition is quite sound, and the generally accepted use of the term.

According to whom is this the 'generally accepted' definition of Aces? I've never heard the term used in such a narrow way.

And when / where was the definition established?

2 minutes ago, President Jyrgunkarrd said:

According to whom is this the 'generally accepted' definition of Aces? I've never heard the term used in such a narrow way.

And when / where was the definition established?

Mid to late 1.0, it's used in podcasts and blogs on this game, and the definition emerged organically as most unique pilots don't fill the ace roll. Ace can be expanded to high I uniques [5-6] but an ace playstyle is one of arcdodging, so when referring to the best ace, it's often inferred to be referring to the playstyle, and ships that participate in it. For example, y-wing norra is not typically referred to as an ace, while Jake may be sometimes, despite the [relatively] low initiative.

'an ace generally speaking refers to a very high Pilot skill (PS) ship - generally PS 7 is probably the lowest number youd even consider ace territory - but the true aces will have PS ranging from 8-11 (depending on if they take PS boosting upgrades like Veteran Instincts or the new Adapability). In end game 1v1 situations, the pilot with the higher PS has a very large advantage for a number of reasons, so many lists feature either 1) their own ace to fight yours late game, or 2) a distinct and prepared plan to defeat aces - a swarm to block with, stress control, what have you etc.

18 hours ago, Da_Brown_Bomber said:

Who are the most cost effective aces in the game?

INITIATIVE 3 = Colonel Jendon 46pts

What? An ace is an I6, double-repositioning ship with three attack dice and, usually, three defense dice.

The only aces I can think of right now are Soontir Fel, Fenn Rau, and Poe Dameron. Kylo Ren and Obi-Wan Kenobi are very close to being aces. Darth Vader is an ace as long as he has Afterburners charges.

27 minutes ago, President Jyrgunkarrd said:

'an ace generally speaking refers to a very high Pilot skill (PS) ship - generally PS 7 is probably the lowest number youd even consider ace territory - but the true aces will have PS ranging from 8-11 (depending on if they take PS boosting upgrades like Veteran Instincts or the new Adapability). In end game 1v1 situations, the pilot with the higher PS has a very large advantage for a number of reasons, so many lists feature either 1) their own ace to fight yours late game, or 2) a distinct and prepared plan to defeat aces - a swarm to block with, stress control, what have you etc.

TL;DR: Ace means high pilot skill ship (probably somewhere from 8-10 most of the time)'
In X-Wing, while any named pilot can be considered an ace, people often are specifically thinking of the top tier, high pilot skill characters like Soontir Fel, Poe Dameron, Darth Vader, and so one.

These are the most important sentences from that, over time the community has converged on Aces being the top tier of a ship, and also generally i5-6 (PS 7/8+ generally speaking, some changed). While if you make it clear you're saying ace in terms of unique pilots, people will adapt but just saying, "I think Sunny bounder is the best ace" will result in confusion. If you want to use Ace to mean unique, go ahead, but expect people to either be confused or correct you fairly often.

18 minutes ago, AceWing said:

What? An ace is an I6, double-repositioning ship with three attack dice and, usually, three defense dice.

The only aces I can think of right now are Soontir Fel, Fenn Rau, and Poe Dameron. Kylo Ren and Obi-Wan Kenobi are very close to being aces. Darth Vader is an ace as long as he has Afterburners charges.

Don't forget Annie. I would put Annie in ace camp real fast, especially with Super.

Yeah, I forgot Anakin. He's definitely an ace.