Looking for help to make this list fit in 200 points. Lots of different ways it could go, but I’m interested in getting RAC built as the powerhouse and CO as an “in your face” bumper who can still threaten with shots. I’ve considered seismics on both to be able to open up the board a bit, so any slants or ways of optimizing it you think of, I’m interested in hearing.

(76) Rear Admiral Chiraneau [VT-49 Decimator]
(14) Darth Vader
(8) Moff Jerjerrod
(9) Fifth Brother
Points: 107

(74) Captain Oicunn [VT-49 Decimator]
(5) 0-0-0
(9) Seventh Sister
(3) Intimidation
(4) Dauntless
Points: 95

Total points: 202

IMHO: The keys to a good double deci list is (1) Vader (2) You have to do something about you action economy and INEVITABLE bumping with 2 large ship jousters.

Your options are Dauntless, Tua, or Grand Inq. I prefer Dauntless or Tua on RAC because he gets the action as late as possible when bumping with title and Reinforce unlocks his action economy with Tua.

For Oicunn, either Dauntless or even better Grand Inq because you can take an action after an ace reveals his dial.

Also Agile Gunner can help, but I prefer the above options. Don’t overlook 5th Bro on Oicunn. Then both ships basically has RACs ability.

@JBFancourt , can you see any room in strategy for Moff Jerjerrod? I’ve used him in a one-deci list and love the unpredictability. I understand the stress is also inevitable due to dauntless, etc., but boosting two Decimators has a major surprise factor, I think.

I think this with prox mines or death Troopers is strong.

(76) Rear Admiral Chiraneau [VT-49 Decimator]
(14) Darth Vader
(7) Minister Tua
(2) Hull Upgrade
Points: 99

(74) Captain Oicunn [VT-49 Decimator]
(4) Dauntless
(9) Fifth Brother
(5) 0-0-0
(2) Hull Upgrade
Points: 94

Total points: 193

Oicunn is essentially RAC and has actions even if bumped (probably better on RAC though given his PS?).

Both have good free mods and Vader is a beast

Edit: Tua likely better on Oicunn so he can see where enemies are before reinforcing. Title on RAC as he's likely to be blocked before moving.

3 hours ago, Synel said:

@JBFancourt , can you see any room in strategy for Moff Jerjerrod? I’ve used him in a one-deci list and love the unpredictability. I understand the stress is also inevitable due to dauntless, etc., but boosting two Decimators has a major surprise factor, I think.

I LOVE Jejerrod!

My current Deci List uses him, too.

Search “Hot Rod - The Decimator Lives” by Dalli and you’ll see the list I’m running. RAC and Whisper.

Great fun to decloak then boost with Whisper!

It’s in the general X-Wing forum.

6 hours ago, Goseki1 said:

I think this with prox mines or death Troopers is strong.

I see where Death Troopers could apply, but if the opposing ships decide to run, the Decimator can’t turn around fast enough to make the stress stick. Maybe just doesn’t suit my style. DT is very conditional on the kind of list across the table and I think they take more forethought to use effectively.

Prox mines are interesting. I think they can be good if I made a plan to crash into their squad and force them to move through rather than to the side, but if it doesn’t work, that’s two more objects for decis to not run over, lol! If I did put prox mines in, I would be strongly drawn to put jerjerrod on CO in order to boost both ships in ways that dropping the mines right afterward would place them squarely on or in front of opponents ships.

I do agree with the strength of both upgrades, though.

6 hours ago, JBFancourt said:

I LOVE Jejerrod!

My current Deci List uses him, too.

Search “Hot Rod - The Decimator Lives” by Dalli and you’ll see the list I’m running. RAC and Whisper.

Great fun to decloak then boost with Whisper!

It’s in the general X-Wing forum.

@JBFancourt , SAME 😁 😁 😁 ! I usually switch up my main squad frequently - still experimenting with a variety of things to see what I like most - but I loved the look and potential of that list so much that I committed to using that list exclusively in all my extended games for the time being (at least until the points change). I had noticed Jerjerrod’s unusual ability some time ago, but didn’t understand where it might best fit. Seeing it here and the strategy explained, just felt like such an interesting way to use the Decimator!

I’m flying this for my 2 Deci list. Used to have Death Troopers and VTG, on Oicunn, but they weren’t as useful as I thought. Vader does much more work.

Dosimators

(74) Captain Oicunn [VT-49 Decimator]
(4) Dauntless
(3) Intimidation
(14) Darth Vader
Points: 95

(68) Patrol Leader [VT-49 Decimator]
(11) Emperor Palpatine
Points: 79

(26) "Night Beast" [TIE/ln Fighter]
Points: 26

Total points: 200

What big weaknesses will this sort of list have and how to combat them? Arc dodgers are probably the worst thing right?

I just tried this:

Soontir Fel (53)
Ruthless (1)

Patrol Leader (68)

Patrol Leader (68)
Total: 190

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

Barely won against a mixed Separatist swarm. Toying with the idea of putting Tactical Scrambler on one or both Decimators but I'll probably be better off with the bid. I love Decimators but they are very challenging to fly well without all their crew tricks.

12 hours ago, ENesbit said:

I just tried this:

Soontir Fel (53)
Ruthless (1)

Patrol Leader (68)

Patrol Leader (68)
Total: 190

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

Barely won against a mixed Separatist swarm. Toying with the idea of putting Tactical Scrambler on one or both Decimators but I'll probably be better off with the bid. I love Decimators but they are very challenging to fly well without all their crew tricks.

I'd built a similar list and think a 10 ppiknt bid is a waste of time just for Soontir. Hold him back until the end and stick Predator and something like Hull upgrades on the Decis.

On 6/29/2019 at 1:37 PM, Goseki1 said:

What big weaknesses will this sort of list have and how to combat them? Arc dodgers are probably the worst thing right?

I think it depends. I can see arc dodgers being a problem if they have a wide range of their maneuvers accessible in the situation. But alternatively, in one game I caught Fenn Rau a time or two by placing RAC squarely in front of him.

I imagine that a strength of a lower init double Decimator list would be in constantly taking up a LOT of board space and bumping properly. They don’t have the tricks that RAC w/Vader do to strip tokens or ensure damage, so if they’re low on mods, they’re either reinforcing to mitigate damage from multiple shots, or they’re bumping in ways to take actions and shots away so that soontir can clean up. I imagine that the weaknesses are if you can’t trigger bumps and end up far away from enemy ships, turning around is a laborious process. Those are my thoughts anyway. I haven’t flown a double deci list yet but plan to try it out soon.

My current take on Double Decimator (using the new points):

Captain Oicunn (74)
Intimidation (3)
0-0-0 (5)
Agile Gunner (8)
Dauntless (4)

Rear Admiral Chiraneau (76)
Minister Tua (7)
Darth Vader (14)
Agile Gunner (8)

Total: 199

https://raithos.github.io/?f=Galactic%20Empire&d=v8ZsZ200Z215X122WW63WWW76WWW147Y214XWW49W26WW76WWW&sn=Unnamed%20Squadron&obs=

I'm yet to test this version of Oicunn.

After testing the version I posted earliest I've made some tweaks. 5th brother didn't pull its weight, partocilakry as you only generate 1 force a turn and want to save that for Vader. You could maybe move it to RAC but its not really that useful. Bombs though are very useful especially as you can drop them before or after using the Jerjerrod boost...

(76) Rear Admiral Chiraneau [VT-49 Decimator]
(2) Hull Upgrade
(7) Minister Tua
(8) Moff Jerjerrod
(6) Proximity Mines
Points: 99

(74) Captain Oicunn [VT-49 Decimator]
(14) Darth Vader
(2) Hull Upgrade
(6) Proximity Mines
(4) Dauntless
Points: 100

Total points: 199

pasting my 5 cents into discussion :

Rear Admiral Chiraneau (76)
Darth Vader (14)
Hotshot Gunner (7)
Dauntless (4)

Ship total: 101 Half Points: 51 Threshold: 8

Captain Oicunn (74)
Intimidation (3)
Grand Inquisitor (14)
0-0-0 (5)
BT-1 (2)

Ship total: 98 Half Points: 49 Threshold: 8
Total: 199

Both have actions after bump, Oicunn can react for dodgers movement. 000 and BT1 act as cheaper version of Fifth Brother. I'm just not fully convinced to Hotshot Gunner, but with Vader it could be worth it for multitokens platforms.
It can be totall bull though

I'd say both want hull upgrade.

Just drop hotshot gunner on the list above and u can add hull upg x2 or hull upg on one and su on the other 😉

I think it looks right.

Chiraneau just needs his reinforce, but needs it garuanteed - which Dauntless does. Oicunn by comparison really wants multiple actions to support reinforce and lock, focus or rotate. 0-0-0 might get you a calculate but your opponent can choose not to let you have it, and BT-1 only gets you a critical if you actually hit, and if they've been stressed by 0-0-0 it means you don't have the calculate token.

The Grand Inquisitor is a good balance, especially with Oicunn's comparatively low initiative, and when you've got one force-powered crew, taking a second (fifth brother) gives you significantly diminishing returns due to the charge recovery).

I'd probably agree with dropping hotshot gunner.

A Shield Upgrade on each ship is pretty cheap (6 points total) and if Oicunn is playing Intimidodgems, then Ruthless on Chiraneau is a nice cheap option that massively increases his firepower; you're trading 1 damage for 1 damage, but 1 damage on a decimator with 17 hit points compared to 1 damage on a snubfighter that might take as few as 3 hits to kill is a very nice trade, especially if you're pushing through a critical hit from Chiraneau's ability.

I like the idea with ruthless on RAC and 2x SU I went for 000 BT1 instead of 5th bro to make a hard choice for enemy - either take stress or give Oicunn calc, and BT1 is also a threat for linked actions

Rolling with extended makes all the decisions a lot easier. RAC is the best Vader carrier, and with Tua he reaches excellent efficiency. Once he's primed and ready, he takes a lock whenever possible, but can reliably get his reinforce/focus mod even without his natural action. Meanwhile, 5th Bro and Dauntless on Oicunn pretty much guarantees his double mods, and Intimidation makes him that much spicier. That all leaves 13 points. I like the idea of some kind of device to cover your @$$

Riffing on the original concept:

• Oicunn (Intimidation, Dauntless, Seventh Sister, Moff Jerjerod, Hull Upgrade) 100
• RAC (Ruthless, Vader, Tua, Hull Upgrade) 100

For something completely different:

• Patrol Leader (Hull Upgrade) 70
• Patrol Leader (Hull Upgrade) 70
• Vizier (Emperor Palptaine, Shield Upgrade) 60

Not my video.

16 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Riffing on the original concept:

• Oicunn (Intimidation, Dauntless, Seventh Sister, Moff Jerjerod, Hull Upgrade) 100
• RAC (Ruthless, Vader, Tua, Hull Upgrade) 100

For something completely different:

• Patrol Leader (Hull Upgrade) 70
• Patrol Leader (Hull Upgrade) 70
• Vizier (Emperor Palptaine, Shield Upgrade) 60

@theBitterFig

1st list: I like that you took 000 out. I remembered that any time it’s triggered for me, the opponent is happy to give me the calculate. Additionally, I realized that, while Seventh Sister is situational, it might be possible to block red moves with the deci unexpectedly, in which case she can become more useful or “easier” to proc. I think Jerjerrod can help with that. I wonder about moving him to RAC so that any other system phase things from the opponent’s list can be accounted for.

2nd list: ... that FITS??? That’s 43 points of health!

1 hour ago, Synel said:

@theBitterFig

1st list: I like that you took 000 out. I remembered that any time it’s triggered for me, the opponent is happy to give me the calculate. Additionally, I realized that, while Seventh Sister is situational, it might be possible to block red moves with the deci unexpectedly, in which case she can become more useful or “easier” to proc. I think Jerjerrod can help with that. I wonder about moving him to RAC so that any other system phase things from the opponent’s list can be accounted for.

2nd list: ... that FITS??? That’s 43 points of health!

0-0-0 only works at Range 1, but Sev always provides a force. The combination of the two can be nasty, though. I figure Sev is worthwhile, if only for the force point, and she seems better than Fifth Brother, if you have the crew slot to spare. A lot of the stuff in the list can probably be shuffled about. Dauntless/Tua could be swapped, Moff JJ going on either ship, etc etc.

Decimators double mines

(76) Rear Admiral Chiraneau [VT-49 Decimator]
(14) Darth Vader
(7) Minister Tua
(6) Proximity Mines
Points: 103

(74) Captain Oicunn [VT-49 Decimator]
(4) Dauntless
(6) Proximity Mines
(9) Seventh Sister
(3) Intimidation
Points: 96

Total points: 199

I tried this out yesterday in two games. They were against a (non-optimized) republic list: saesee (no config), Wolffe, little ani, and padme. It was a casual game and he was still working out how to fly the Naboo fighters well, so not a matchup that proves this list’s competitive viability very well. But I can say that both games were a ton of fun! I set up both decis close together in the right corner on my side, oicunn closer to the edge. I staggered them so they could slowly bank in and face off against his faster ships as they came down the center and banked towards me. Minimal damage exchanged, but I hit saesee hard for because he forgot about vader and double-repositioned into r2. Next turn, because there was basically a wall of rock and Decimator in the way, he had very few options in where to move. I decided to turn tail and run back along the right side of the field... but this was really just to enable easier access for the mine drops! I ended up causing his arc to bump oicunn for two turns and take heavy r0 shots as rac continued to snake close to the edge, moving farther away and becoming a less attractive target. I think the game ended with his list fully destroyed an only 3 shields down on each deci. Second game, I was more aggressive in my approach and he was more conservative. I had more opportunities to drop mines right onto ships. There was one opportunity where saesee k turned through oicunn, but got 7thed tractored onto a rock in a bad way. Rac vadered him a turn or two later. And because oicunn chanced a survival by one health remaining through the following engagements, even through a console fire, he was able to drop his last mine before being taken out, nearly destroying padme. So it was rac against two Naboo fighters and an arc who was prone to being regularly out of position to shoot. Through some unfortunate misjudgments on his part, padme landed on rocks twice. Anakin did some smart bumping, but enough damage had been done to rac so he could now trigger tua. Time ended with anakin down and rac still above half. This is such a fun list! I’m going to try working in moff Jerjerrod next.