For Finn's pilot ability while he defends or performs an attack he may add a blank result or he may gain a strain token to add a focus result.
My question is if he defends, does he immediately remove the strain token after he defends? Cause if so that seems to be a bit too good.
"STRAIN
A ship is strained while it has at least one strain token. While a strained
ship defends, it rolls 1 fewer defense die. The strain token is a red token.
• After a strained ship defends, it removes 1 strain token.
• After a strained ship executes a blue maneuver, it removes 1 strain
token."
RAW there is no counter argument to this. the ship becomes strained during the modify defence dice step, so it cannot roll fewer dice. after it defends, the strain token is removed.
28 minutes ago, meffo said:
"STRAIN
A ship is strained while it has at least one strain token. While a strained
ship defends, it rolls 1 fewer defense die. The strain token is a red token.
• After a strained ship defends, it removes 1 strain token.
• After a strained ship executes a blue maneuver, it removes 1 strain
token." RAW there is no counter argument to this. the ship becomes strained during the modify defence dice step, so it cannot roll fewer dice. after it defends, the strain token is removed.
...yeah, i think the logic pans out on this one! (For the record, basically staple Heroic onto this guy)
39 minutes ago, emeraldbeacon said:...yeah, i think the logic pans out on this one! (For the record, basically staple Heroic onto this guy)
Heroic and Copilot.
1 hour ago, MegaSilver said:Heroic and Copilot.
Advanced Optics is also a good fit.
Ha that's so dumb.
Someone writing this thought strain said 'the next time you defend didn't they.
Wow this pack
1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:Ha that's so dumb.
Someone writing this thought strain said 'the next time you defend didn't they.
Wow this pack
Or maybe it was intentional and they wanted the restriction for attack mods be tougher than for the defence mods with the most concise wording in between. Who knows?
Edited by Ryfterek2 hours ago, Ryfterek said:Or maybe it was intentional and they wanted the restriction for attack mods be tougher than for the defence mods with the most concise wording in between. Who knows?
It's not intentional. Its **** writing. Think about it, with that writing, and how strain works, there is Zero reason for the strain token requirement to even be there. You apply it, gain the focus result, finish the defense (it has no effect on that defense) then its removed. Whats the point of it being added in the first place? There is none. Unless some ability triggers off a ship getting strained.
Either the one who wrote that forgot how strain worked, or they actually wanted it to be Stress and not Strain. Either way, as its written, there is little to no reason for you to not add a focus result over a blank unless there is some ability out there that says a ship doesnt remove its strain after defending.
The logic, I think, is that if they wanted the strain to apply only to the attack effect and not the defence effect, this would be a legitimate way to do it - but also, a spectacularly unclear one, so either way, it's terrible writing.
I expect that to get FAQd unless it isn't a problem, maybe his cost will go up to compensate.
@Lyianx - first, my reasoning was that which thespaceinvader has put.
Also, for adding the blank in defence, there is the Heroic gimmic for when you've blanked out and... Yeah, that's about it.
If they want to solve this, seems like the best solve would be a minor rewrite on the Strain rules. Change the timing on strain removal to after the "Roll Defense Dice" step, and Finn's strain would be added too late to be removed.
Just to clarify, Finn's "add one blank result" happens at the Modify Defense Dice step of attack, correct? So, an attack on Finn looks like:
Oof. That's probably not what they intended, but certainly Rules as Written, and without much wiggle room.
Edited by OpsmasonCorrect. Currently.
6 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:The logic, I think, is that if they wanted the strain to apply only to the attack effect and not the defence effect, this would be a legitimate way to do it - but also, a spectacularly unclear one, so either way, it's terrible writing.
Perhaps. And thats how it seems to work now.. I still think they wrote it without really realizing the defense aspect, they just included the defending roll so he could do his ability for both. Its just, as written, is not costly when used defensibly vs an attack.
Whats worse, is given his ini is 2, he could do this every time hes shot at and never have strain until he attacks or moves, which the time he will have it is fairly minimal.
50 minutes ago, Lyianx said:Perhaps. And thats how it seems to work now.. I still think they wrote it without really realizing the defense aspect, they just included the defending roll so he could do his ability for both. Its just, as written, is not costly when used defensibly vs an attack.
Whats worse, is given his ini is 2, he could do this every time hes shot at and never have strain until he attacks or moves, which the time he will have it is fairly minimal.
(His initiative is 3.)
Bad source is bad!
Edited by Maui.Taking the initiative point into consideration, why not just use stress as the punishment?
On 7/2/2019 at 12:47 PM, napolyphonic said:Taking the initiative point into consideration, why not just use stress as the punishment?
... Because the card says he takes one strain.
It is a reasonable sounding suggestion that the card be errata'd to take a stress on defense side of the ability. It could also be changed so you take the Strain token after the attack, or add a clause at the end that says "you do not remove the strain token at the end of this defense".
There's lots of ways this could be cleared up, but as written the defense half of Finn's focus-adding ability is effectively no cost.
41 minutes ago, nitrobenz said:... Because the card says he takes one strain.
It is a reasonable sounding suggestion that the card be errata'd to take a stress on defense side of the ability. It could also be changed so you take the Strain token after the attack, or add a clause at the end that says "you do not remove the strain token at the end of this defense".
There's lots of ways this could be cleared up, but as written the defense half of Finn's focus-adding ability is effectively no cost.
How I would've worded it: "When you defend or perform an attack, you may add one blank result, or you may add one focus result. After attacking or defending, if you added a focus result, gain one strain."
Edited by emeraldbeacon3 hours ago, emeraldbeacon said:How I would've worded it: "When you defend or perform an attack, you may add one blank result, or you may add one focus result. After attacking or defending, if you added a focus result, gain one strain."
That seems like it'd be one way. The game effect of removing a strain after defending would happen before the ability effect of Finn.
I don't think you have to change finn. Just change strain rules to
After a strained ship defends, "if it rolled one less defense die from the strain token" it removes 1 strain token
Something like that. Seems like a better future proof solution to fix strain rules for the whole game rather than the ship
12 minutes ago, Gokuja04 said:I don't think you have to change finn. Just change strain rules to
After a strained ship defends, "if it rolled one less defense die from the strain token" it removes 1 strain token
Something like that. Seems like a better future proof solution to fix strain rules for the whole game rather than the ship
As noted above, simply changing the timing of the strain removal to 'after a strained ship rolls defence dice' rather than 'after a strained ship defends' would be the simplest and most elegant solution.
When Finn Defends he can take the strain to add the focus to his already rolled 2 dice, and then after resolving the attack you may remove the strain. As long as you have a focus why not? If you don’t have a focus, the blank might get you a heroic trigger.
When he attacks he has to keep the strain if he added a focus, but if you don’t have a focus you can again try and re-roll the blank.
55 minutes ago, Sir13scott said:When Finn Defends he can take the strain to add the focus to his already rolled 2 dice, and then after resolving the attack you may remove the strain. As long as you have a focus why not? If you don’t have a focus, the blank might get you a heroic trigger.
When he attacks he has to keep the strain if he added a focus, but if you don’t have a focus you can again try and re-roll the blank.
And with Finn's fairly low initiative of 2, the Strain token he's gained probably won't cost him a defense die that round; then, with a blue maneuver, he can clear it anyway.
This goes well with Finn being quite a coward, he is good at running away, if he focuses on attack, he gets strained 😅