Bit of errata to Winter's Embrace (from Tyler Parrot on Discord):

Thanks for this.

I'm waiting for the .PDF anyway, so it should be all good.

Miya Satoshi Status should be higher than 75. As the Miya Daimyo, he is probably 90+

Not sure I agree with the choice of Toshimoko for champion at the end too Like, what ?

5 hours ago, Avatar111 said:

Miya Satoshi Status should be higher than 75. As the Miya Daimyo, he is probably 90+

I would agree - though not having read the adventure (c'mon Drivethru!) it may depend in part what hat he's talking through wearing at any given moment.

The Imperial Family Daimyos are status rank 9, but the Imperial Herald (which is the unique post he holds) is listed in the table as status rank 7, the equivalent of a Great Clan Family Daimyo or Minor Clan Champion.

Is he acting in persona as the Miya Daimyo or the Hantei Imperial Herald when he appears in the adventure?

1 hour ago, Magnus Grendel said:

I would agree - though not having read the adventure (c'mon Drivethru!) it may depend in part what hat he's talking through wearing at any given moment.

The Imperial Family Daimyos are status rank 9, but the Imperial Herald (which is the unique post he holds) is listed in the table as status rank 7, the equivalent of a Great Clan Family Daimyo or Minor Clan Champion.

Is he acting in persona as the Miya Daimyo or the Hantei Imperial Herald when he appears in the adventure?

Imperial Herald.

But I didn't know your status could fluctuate.

11 hours ago, Avatar111 said:

Imperial Herald.

But I didn't know your status could fluctuate.

As a numerical stat for a PC, it doesn't. For an NPC...it still doesn't because it's a written stat, but it's a written stat for them in that situation at that point in time.

For an example, narratively speaking, the honorifics and how you'd act around the Emerald Champion and the Lion Clan Champion are different, even though they're technically the same person.

I could see this counting double if what you're seeing the Emerald Champion about is " the Lion Clan are illegally trying to sieze my land, please make a ruling on this ", because you aren't talking to the Lion Clan Champion and frankly would very much rather he wasn't in the room.

I think there's a quote from the Mikado about that.

48 minutes ago, UnitOmega said:

I think there's a quote from the Mikado about that.

I suspect a lot of the Clan-Born Imperial Officials various legal personas aren't on speaking terms with themselves at various points. Conflicting loyalty is great fun to throw into this sort of thing.

And yes, I do find myself wanting to nominate a PC's character " Lord-High-Everything-Else " at some point.

Ok then, fluctuating status. I think I'll just put him to 90 anyway... I have a player with the Imperial Lineage status heritage that chose Miya in his background. So that player will most probably will want to get an audience with Satoshi to legitimate even more his status (the player basically have plans to eventually leave his current clan and join the Miya. So I need to work the story around that a bit. I was actually really happy when I saw Satoshi in the adventure I was planning to run for them, and the "spoiler" about him).

The other thing is Toshimoko at the end. lol! Ok, I will be fair, I am lucky enough that my group will 100% side with either the Crane or Miya, but defeinitely not the Mantis. So they won't have to duel Toshimoko. But I can't stop but thinking it is a biiiit too hardcore to throw Toshimoko at some players in a duel, both because at rank 1-2 they will probably get destroyed and that because at rank 3+ they will probably destroy Toshimoko because his stat block is kind of weak. (Honestly, Toshimoko is in a lot of adventure so far, can't he have his stat block?)

Though, it is j ust a preference, couldn't it be another Kenshinzen ? but maybe not one of the best duelist in the empire and the sensei ? that is basically bad in both situations; players get destroyed by him at rank 1-2, or random crab bushi rank 3 smack toshimoko down... Both cases are just weird, mechanically and lore wise.

8 hours ago, UnitOmega said:

I think there's a quote from the Mikado about that.

"Come over here, where the Chancellor of the Exchequer can't hear us.", if I recall correctly.

Something that I just noticed on the map - the Deer's castle is Kyuden Shika. What did they do to deserve having their home nominated as sufficient to host Imperial Winter Court?

57 minutes ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

"Come over here, where the Chancellor of the Exchequer can't hear us.", if I recall correctly.

Something that I just noticed on the map - the Deer's castle is Kyuden Shika. What did they do to deserve having their home nominated as sufficient to host Imperial Winter Court?

Well, they definitely seem like the most influential minor clan in the courts by FAR, enough to be commonly meddling with very high status characters, the winter court etc.

1 hour ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

What did they do to deserve having their home nominated as sufficient to host Imperial Winter Court?

I believe they're descended from Asahina and Daidoji families and have an in with the Fortune of Bonds, so they project a bit higher than you'd expect. I'd have to double check my notes but I think somebody showed me they're printed at Status 30 which is a bit unusual for Minor Clans.

But also remember Kyuden Suzume exists, and also that the Dragon and the Unicorn don't have any official Kyudens - at least on the maps we have.

The Unicorn lacking a Kyuden is an important setting point (some of the Ide are a bit sore about it still, I think). The Dragon have been basically using Kyuden Tonbo since they could get away with it. As for the Sparrow, I'll note that the map in Shadowlands calls it Castle of the Sparrow, not Palace of the Sparrow...

21 hours ago, Avatar111 said:

The other thing is Toshimoko at the end. lol! Ok, I will be fair, I am lucky enough that my group will 100% side with either the Crane or Miya, but defeinitely not the Mantis. So they won't have to duel Toshimoko. But I can't stop but thinking it is a biiiit too hardcore to throw Toshimoko at some players in a duel, both because at rank 1-2 they will probably get destroyed and that because at rank 3+ they will probably destroy Toshimoko because his stat block is kind of weak. (Honestly, Toshimoko is in a lot of adventure so far, can't he have his stat block?)

Though, it is j ust a preference, couldn't it be another Kenshinzen ? but maybe not one of the best duelist in the empire and the sensei ? that is basically bad in both situations; players get destroyed by him at rank 1-2, or random crab bushi rank 3 smack toshimoko down... Both cases are just weird, mechanically and lore wise.

The problem is, it is the Winter court, at the Crane's home-field, Kyuden Doji. So if the Crane want to reach for a duellist and actually want to win, it's going to be Toshimoko because that's basically his job description.

Whether his statline and abilities fit what you need him to do in the storyline is a different question, but it's definitely appropriate that he be the crane's default champion.

And if the players are the Topaz Championship contestants, he's (narratively speaking, at least) an appropriately intimidating opponent.

18 hours ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

What did they do to deserve having their home nominated as sufficient to host Imperial Winter Court?

Probably sort out a profitable marriage for someone into the Imperial Family....

26 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

The problem is, it is the Winter court, at the Crane's home-field, Kyuden Doji. So if the Crane want to reach for a duellist and actually want to win, it's going to be Toshimoko because that's basically his job description.

Whether his statline and abilities fit what you need him to do in the storyline is a different question, but it's definitely appropriate that he be the crane's default champion.

And if the players are the Topaz Championship contestants, he's (narratively speaking, at least) an appropriately intimidating opponent.

Is any rank 1-2 player suppose to have a chance to win a fair duel against Toshimoko? Or is the adventure made for much higher rank characters? Or basically lore doesn't matter, Toshimoko is getting old anyway, a rookie can beat him?

It makes Rokugan feel very small and weak. Or the players absurdly strong from the get go. Maybe that is intended.

Edit: as much as I am not that fond of the concept of "level 20 npc unbeatable!" I feel that it is a bit weird.

59 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

Is any rank 1-2 player suppose to have a chance to win a fair duel against Toshimoko? Or is the adventure made for much higher rank characters? Or basically lore doesn't matter, Toshimoko is getting old anyway, a rookie can beat him?

It makes Rokugan feel very small and weak. Or the players absurdly strong from the get go. Maybe that is intended.

Without a copy of the adventure, it's hard to say. Toshimoko shouldn't be unbeatable, but I'd feel awkward if he's not good .

Agasha Sumiko's Earth & Water 4, Martial 4 is beatable but still pretty impressive from the perspective of basic characters, and she's not primarily a duellist.

56 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Without a copy of the adventure, it's hard to say. Toshimoko shouldn't be unbeatable, but I'd feel awkward if he's not good .

Agasha Sumiko's Earth & Water 4, Martial 4 is beatable but still pretty impressive from the perspective of basic characters, and she's not primarily a duellist.

Hes a venerable daimyo from the core book, with both Iai Kata. So air 4 martial 4 with Crossing Cut. Still, if that is the empire's best duelist lol

Edit; not that it really matters to be fair. Most NPC would lose against a rank3+ player in most cases. I guess this is suppose to make the PC as "big" as the setting in a relatively quick manner. It just speaks to the absurd level of power a rank 4+ pc have, and how the rank6 school ability should be rank4 maybe, because definitely no character in the setting reached rank6 if toshimoko and such high profile npcs are about early rank 3 in power level.

It doesn't surprise me if they make him poor. Their dueling prowess, as everything else good about them, is structured to be all artifice the way that this book is written.

Just now, KakitaKaori said:

It doesn't surprise me if they make him poor. Their dueling prowess, as everything else good about them, is structured to be all artifice the way that this book is written.

Weird statement. Not sure I'd agree as reading the books.

Anyway, if anybody, like me, is concerned about the power level of high profile npcs. It isn't the end of the world to redesign their stat blocks.

Hmm...

How good is 'good' - given currently written stats?

• Agasha Sumiko - Ruby Champion (until we get Doji Satsume* or Akodo Toturi's stats, the 'best' Emerald Magistrate) - E4 W4 A3 V3 F2, Martial 4, E12 C14, F6 V4
• Seppun Ishikawa - Captain of the Seppun Honour Guard ('best' statted Imperial Bodyguard) - E4 W4 A3 V3 F3, Martial 4, E16 C12, F5 V4
• Moto Rurame - Noyen of the Scarlet Banners ('best' statted Unicorn) - E2 W2 A4 V2 F4, Martial 5, E13 C9, F8 V3
• Hida Etsuji - Watchtower commander ('best' statted Crab) - E5 W4 A2 V3 F4, Martial 5, E18 C18, F6 V3
• Damasu no Akodo Maeda ('best' statted Lion - and there really aren't many!) - E3 W3 A2 V2 F4, Martial 5, E14 C9, F5 V3
• Moto Tsume (the 'best' of the Lost and probably the scariest 'broadly human' adversary going) - E5 W4 A4 V3 F5, Martial 5, E20 C18, F9 V4

43 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

Hes a venerable daimyo from the core book, with both Iai Kata. So air 4 martial 4 with Crossing Cut. Still, if that is the empire's best duelist lol

3 rings at rank 4 and martial 4 appears to be about as good as anyone, especially with the techniques on top.

That said I'm surprised he didn't get either Ring Rank 5 or Martial 5 (to date only two characters, Hida Etsuji and Moto Tsume, have both, but the Grey Crane is not that young, so it'd make more sense for him to have rank 5 skill rather than physical prowess).

You could also give him some NPC variation on the Kenshinzen title ability (the Courts of Stone sourcebook and Winter's Embrace adventure were presumably written together).

31 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

Anyway, if anybody, like me, is concerned about the power level of high profile npcs. It isn't the end of the world to redesign their stat blocks.

Agreed.

And. to be honest, Venerable Daimyo is not a bad starting point unless you have a reasonably 'good' set of PCs. A lot of it depends, as you say, what level the opposition is. I'm not a fan of " It's Kakita Toshimoko, you lose " so you'd probably need to scale it up or down depending on the party anyway to get the right balance of 'possible to win but unlikely'.

* Is he statted in the book, actually? If he is that might be useful for my PCs at home at some point.

12 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

* Is he statted in the book, actually? If he is that might be useful for my PCs at home at some point.

no.

13 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Hmm...

How good is 'good' - given currently written stats?

I guess "good" is defined by rings and melee stat and endurance/composure.
By that standard, Hida Etsuji is the strongest "non-monster".

It might be the case of NPCs not having a lot of "abilities" though. Again, I wouldn't feel bad at all tweaking them if necessary to fit my idea of the setting.
I don't think when they wrote Winter's Embrace they were like "that IS toshimoko!" more like "here is the easiest way we can kind of stat out toshimoko"

I just need to make peace with the fact that NPC statblocks in this edition are juste broad strokes and only need to be put in relation to your PCs. (probably many NPC will need "buffs" when your PC gets to higher ranks, unless you think a rank 3 PC should feel top dog in Rokugan. But that is weird to me as I had the impression that the strongest npc in the setting would be rank 5-6 level of awesomeness)

40 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

But that is weird to me as I had the impression that the strongest npc in the setting would be rank 5-6 level of awesomeness

Well, the 'challenge ratings' are a rough guide at best, but according to the rulebook:

To estimate the Encounter Rank (how challenging the NPCs in a conflict scene will be) for a scene, take the sum of the combat (for battles) or intrigue (for social scenes) conflict ranks of all NPCs opposing the PCs.

• If the group rank is roughly equal to the encounter rank, the PCs are generally matched with the force of NPCs. They most likely have a solid chance of prevailing, though they could still lose if they grow overconfident (or fortune forsakes them).
• If the group rank is 1.5 to 2 times the encounter rank, the PCs have a significant edge over the NPCs, and are very likely to win without significant losses.
• If the group rank is 0.5 times the encounter rank or lower, the PCs are significantly outmatched— cunning or luck will be needed to take the day, and this might even be a battle best avoided!

Which implies that a 'fair fight' - i.e. one that could go either way - is an encounter rank somewhere between 1 and 2 times the sum of your group's school ranks, or that each 'pip' of conflict rank should be equivalent to somewhere between 1 and 2 school ranks. At combat rank 7, a Venerable Provincial Daimyo should be somewhere between an equivalent of a rank 4-5 character....which they really aren't.

That said, Moto Tsume is military rank 12, and I would give him a fair chance against the sort of opposition it's implied he should fight.

• Master of Tactics and Terror, his unique ability , is ridiculous and easily a match for some school mastery abilities; being able to spend + to give every opponent in the scene an equivalent number plus one of whilst doing any tactics check - like, say, an air stance guard action (rolled with 9 bloody dice and keeping 5 , I hasten to add)
• He is armed with a Damage 6, Deadliness 5, Durable scimitar
• Whilst only Ashigaru armour, his armour comes with supernatural resistance 2, taking a lot of the sting out of magical attacks
• Kyofu is an even-scarier-than-utaku-steed warhorse that can just auto-hit nearby opponents (not necessarily the one you're aiming at) for a painful 5 Damage by him spending in addition to his rider's attacks.

2 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

At combat rank 7, a Venerable Provincial Daimyo should be somewhere between an equivalent of a rank 4-5 character....which they really aren't. 

fact

2 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

That said, Moto Tsume is military rank 12, and I would give him a fair chance against the sort of opposition it's implied he should fight.

• Whilst only Ashigaru armour, his armour comes with supernatural resistance 2, taking a lot of the sting out of magical attacks

Tsume is indeed a beast!!
But armor on shadowland stuff... Your characters will have Sacred weapons and or spells (probably will have) by then. So Armor is irrelevant on tainted and otherwordly beings beyond a certain point.

I have not played beyond rank 3 anyway, But right now I already feel I need to soup up my NPCs, considerably. At least in the "ability" category, giving them some of the players Kata/Invocations and such.

2 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

Your characters will have Sacred weapons and or spells (probably will have) by then. So Armor is irrelevant on tainted and otherwordly beings beyond a certain point.

It's not guaranteed, but highly likely. Certainly if preparing to fight something like the Dark Moto you'd like to assume they would have gone out of their way to acquire such an option. It's not a huge amount of armour, anyway, but resistance 2 is still enough to be annoying if your preferred invocation would be something that's not sacred by default.

Generally, FFG's policy with NPCs seems to be that they provide you the bare minimum and you scale up (i/e add templates) as needed because NPCs should not outshine PCs, merely present challenges to them, because your game isn't about the NPCs (and I'm of the mind if it is you should go write your novel instead). This keeps NPC notes more compact and means no more 90s era "you literally cannot defeat this character don't even try". I know some people in the SWRPG community who think they lowballed Vader's stats for instance, but if you're using Vader as a plot point then you should use him like one - I think there's a web adventure which is "Vader advances 1 range band per round, if he catches you you're ****ing dead mate" version. Which may be thematically appropriate, but probably not the advice you use for general play. Similarly, most high-power NPCs in Rokugan don't need to roll a single die to **** your samurai up - they just demand your seppuku, or cast you out as Ronin, or they have the guards seize you. If you think giving Toshimoko a 5th skill die makes it better for your game, go for it.