I tried out Kestal with the new points, but the 2-point drop is blunted by more expensive turrets (so I guess, don't use a turret and it's fixed, FFG?). Aggressors needed a heavier discount than this.

On the occasions when Kestal survived a couple rounds and even rolled above average, it did alright against force users and ships that depend on evade/focus; very anti-ace and anti-force. Not lethally so (not enough dice and mods for that), but it bypasses their defenses pretty well. But it did very poorly against everything else, and there's a lot else. Bulk lists are still popular (including this list with its decimator), and Finn+Rey(Gunner) bypasses the ability (giving a lot of options to the Vennie-Han list I fought). Compared to bulk, the ship is a delicate flower, very easily crushed. And that action bar is garbage.

I like the number of mods in this list (everyone has 2 - 3 passive mods), but it's hard to bring them all to bear. It felt like Kestal was dragging the list down instead of really contributing, except when he dug deep into Luke's hull that one time with really lucky rolls vs really bad dice. And if I'm relying on dice luck to make the ship perform even with a great approach and positioning, something's wrong. I kinda did okay when using the red coordinate to slow down Vermeil and give Kestal a lock or evade to go with his focus, but that's a lot of investment into the ship, points that could have probably been better spent?

Probably some ways to improve the fleet design itself (like taking points off of Kestal), but Kestal still needs to do a lot better than this. FFG needs to give an earnest buff to the ship to compensate for its very flawed design. I still can't get over that clumsily-designed action bar. The points adjustment didn't feel like a buff so much as doubling down on their "it's perfect as it is" answer.

"Ruth Stayed Home"

• RAC with Ruthless + Minister Tua + Hotshot Gunner + Dauntless (95)
• Major Vermeil with Ruthless (50)
• Kestal with Ruthless + Barrage Rockets + Dorsal Turret + Fifth Brother (54)

Variant to consider:

• RAC with Ruthless + Minister Tua + Hotshot Gunner + Dauntless + Hull Upgrade (97)
• Major Vermeil with Ruthless + Emperor Palpatine (61)
• Kestal with Ruthless + Barrage Rockets (42)

Strip the turret and gunner for Palpy. But then Kestal struggles even more to keep foes in arc.

Maybe I should downgrade RAC to Oicunn and lead with him in front... That helps feed Ruthless, and frees up points for a turret.

• Oicunn with Ruthless + Hotshot Gunner + Dauntless (86)
• Major Vermeil with Ruthless + Darth Vader (64)
• Kestal with Ruthless + Barrage Rockets + Dorsal Turret + Hull Upgrade (50)

*grumble* I'm probably being overly salty, but **** that's a delicate and clumsy ship for the investment. I don't know if this fleet (or any Kestal fleet) is worth revisiting for the moment.

I think there's an awkward squad balance there. Kestal is alright as a largely ignored 4th ship, if you have fatter, juicer targets that will grab the attention and close games out. Needs to be able to take multiple shots and generally keep being annoying. Otherwise he'll always get wrecked before doing the important damage.

It is a clunky, squishy ship though and I'm a little disappointed it didn't get more help. Particularly with it's tools going up. I'd like to have seen it get a Sensor slot.

For the lols, I may get this on the table soon.

(48) Captain Kagi [Lambda-class T-4a Shuttle] (4) ST-321. Points: 52

(51) "Echo" [TIE/ph Phantom] (6) Outmaneuver. Points: 57

(45) Ved Foslo [TIE Advanced x1] (2) Fire-Control System. Points: 47

(33) Lieutenant Kestal [TIE/ag Aggressor] (3) Dorsal Turret (8) Barrage Rockets. Points: 44

Total points: 200

I find the TIE Aggressor a decent wingman for a Alpha-class Starwing- they have near identical dials and work fairly well together, especially if you don't Slam too often with the gunboat. I keep the Aggressor low cost, just a dorsal turret and vet turret gunner, it is a workmanlike ship without many frills. Keep them the same Initiative, have the Aggressor strip off the enemy's tokens with a double-shot, then let the gunboat blast them with torps. Not the best list, but the Aggressor is cheaper than another gunboat, and it works alright- it is ignored for the gunboat by the enemy and its twin shots can do a decent amount of damage. Looking forward to putting Passive Sensors on the gunboat(s) to give them some better chances to shoot higher Initiative aces.

I feel like the Aggressor was kind of an awful design in 2.0 to begin with. esp with the 5 health being really bad.

The main issue with the ship is that its really not worth taking because none of its upgrades are remotely worth it, nor is there a need or niche for it (even though its the only turret carrier Imps have)

I suspect we just have to wait and see what kind of better upgrades FFG makes.

Also, I thought Kestal was a she.

2 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Also, I thought Kestal was a she.

Checks out.

Wookieepedia-

"At one point, Kestal conducted an operation on an arid planet with red cliffs, and proceeded to fly around and underneath them.

Kestal was a very skilled pilot, which helped her stand out over other elite pilots, and allowed her to be trained to fly the expensive, multi-role TIE Aggressor starfighter. She was one of the most aggressive and talented Aggressor pilots of the Imperial Navy. "

:D

The Agressors are still over costed, maybe when a better turret comes out. A 3/4 dice range 3 only turret would be cool.

9 hours ago, Cuz05 said:

Checks out.

Wookieepedia-

"At one point, Kestal conducted an operation on an arid planet with red cliffs, and proceeded to fly around and underneath them.

Kestal was a very skilled pilot, which helped her stand out over other elite pilots, and allowed her to be trained to fly the expensive, multi-role TIE Aggressor starfighter. She was one of the most aggressive and talented Aggressor pilots of the Imperial Navy. "

This article makes me laugh every time I read it. Is the card art the only resource we have for her?!

15 minutes ago, Roller of blanks said:

This article makes me laugh every time I read it. Is the card art the only resource we have for her?!

The only other source is FFG. Definitely a she. And aggressive.

" At a pilot skill value of "7," Lieutenant Kestal is the quickest shot among the expansion's various pilots and the one best able to react to her enemies' maneuvers. She's also the most aggressive of them, capitalizing upon the accuracy of her Synced Turret with a unique pilot ability that allows her to spend a focus token to cancel all of an opponent's blank and defense results."

@Wazat , taking a close look at the AG, it is helpful to compare it to the V19 Torrent. I think these may be the only two ships to have B.roll+link+red evade.

Cheapest Torrent is 25.

So you're paying THREE POINTS for a more open and speedy dial, an extra rocket slot, a turret and gunner slot, and very importantly, swapping one hull out for a shield. I wouldn't call it a great trade, but I'd say it's fair.

In that note, I'd keep my AG cheap and use it as a Control Blocker.

Doral Turret and "BT-1" gunner on the Specialist.

33 points and done.

(Edit: sorry, Kestal. Maybe next time )

I've enjoyed Afterburners on Ion Turret Kestal - lets her zip around to the flank/rear of the enemy and do her thing, and can help keep the sideways arc pointing in the right direction.

I think that's just 44 points after the new points changes.

The only time I have enjoyed flying her around is when I have Barrage rockets on her AND Captain Jonus. With Jonus next to her, she often doesn't have to spend the fous she has for the rockets (she gets 2 re-rolls for free). Even then, it's just a meh ship...

The TIE Aggressor needs some better gunner options, better pilots, and possibly a special modification or title for it to have a chance at seeing play in the top tables.

Yet another platform screwed by overpriced missiles. Paying 4 points for ion missiles is just disgusting. Is there any ship in the game that would pay more than 2 for that abomination? They all should have come down by 2 points (except barrage and prockets which are fine and should stay rare).

If I were to build her, I'd just use Juke and fly her with Vizier. Focus + Evade basically means the enemy gets no dice so she turns into a mini-Wedge, but coordinate is still useful if she pops. If you want to shell out, 5bro for passive mod and/or ICT could work. Alternatively, barrage with 5bro means you use your focus to shoot, mod with force (and get a juicy crit), and deny their defense with your focus (and evade if handy). Of course, then you're starting to pay actual Wedge prices.

Maybe something like this?

Lieutenant Kestal (33)
Juke (7)
Ion Cannon Turret (5)

Ship total: 45

"Vizier" (45)
Death Troopers (6)

Ship total: 51

Rear Admiral Chiraneau (76)
Lone Wolf (5)
Darth Vader (14)
Moff Jerjerrod (8)

Ship total: 103

Total: 199

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Galactic Empire&d=v7!s=200!187:123,138,,,,:;185:27,,:;214:124,,26,50,,,,,:&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

I've had fun with Kestal with Sai and Vessery, but as Wazzat said, Kestal feels like the weak link in this list and is first to burn down. Very situational use, but can be very mean to aces if you can get them in arc.

• Lt Kestal - Ion Cannon Turret, Hotshot Gunner
• Lt Sai - Seventh Sister, Title
• Cln Vessery - Juke, FCS

I mostly like Sai with Vessery. Kestal is there because of a bet to try and make a useful list with an aggressor in it.

@Wazat Don't feel too bad. Going for Kestal first was my plan because I knew she was my primary target or she was going to really put a hurt on my Vader. @Cuz05 makes a good point, maybe try to hide her in a list as a 4th ship. Maybe trying to keep her under or at 45 is the best way to go.

If (WHEN?!) TIE Aggressors continue to not see play FFG will surely drop them another point or two.

1 hour ago, Skitch_ said:

If (WHEN?!) TIE Aggressors continue to not see play FFG will surely drop them another point or two.

You mean the way they dropped the YT-2400 a point or two?

Oh wait. THEY DIDN'T!

*bangs head on desk*

1 hour ago, ClassicalMoser said:

You mean the way they dropped the YT-2400 a point or two?

Oh wait. THEY DIDN'T!

*bangs head on desk*

But Dash is SO CLOSE to being really good you guys... Don't pay attention to the fact that they've never made the top half of swiss since January.

“Howlrunner” (40)
Crack Shot (1)

Iden Versio (40)
Crack Shot (1)

Lieutenant Kestal (33)
Crack Shot (1)

Sienar Specialist (28)

Sienar Specialist (28)

Sienar Specialist (28)
Total: 200

41 minutes ago, Skitch_ said:

But Dash is SO CLOSE to being really good you guys... Don't pay attention to the fact that they've never made the top half of swiss since January.

Don't pay attention to the fact that ListFortress has literally THREE uses of Dash, and ZERO of any other YT-2400. And the mean percentile? 17...

Why are we talking about dash when we could be talking about Kestal? Hahahaha

Don't think of Kestal as an ace

Kestal is a souped up bomber that can slap Jedi and even Sith upside the head

Course, you gotta build around her a little or you're never gonna spend that focus on her ability. Couple things you could do, but the easiest is barrage Jonus

And give her Ruthless for good measure. She's about the only pilot that can reliably make it a 1-for-1.

She's 41 points with just rockets (same price as i2 xwing). If fancy, dorsal and ruthless take her up to 45.

Any additional mods oughta come for outside sources like Jonus (or coordinate or Palp or Jendon ..so really, a lambda) because she's still just five health, two agi

But at 41-45 for an I 4? Easy $

Kestal is the 4th cheapest missile carrier at Init 4 or higher. Blount and N'Dru Suhlak both are cheaper, but both also have pilot abilities which are primary-weapon only and one fewer HP. DBS-404 is also cheaper, and might actually use missiles. She's tied with Kickback, and cheaper than Genesis Red.

I just had a thought about the TIE Aggressor. It's a Scyk with slightly different weapons mounts. Two agility with 5 hits is pretty much the same toughness as 3 agility with 4 hits, both have decent but unexciting dials.

//

Anyhow, Kestal might be decent with the new Diamond Boron Missiles. It'll require some kind of support, in order to get her a focus token, but it kinda seems like she might do a better job at getting the initial hit to get the explosions going. If Kestal was in the same faction as Jake Farrell, they'd be an amazing pair.

I'm so, so sick of barrage rockets being the only good missiles. If we had 2-4 point lock missiles it wouldn't be an issue. But that's for the chassis as a whole.

On the other hand, Kestal loves barrage rockets! The best thing? She can carry 5bro so:

Lieutenant Kestal (33)
Barrage Rockets (8)
Fifth Brother (9)

Ship total: 50

And BOOM! You have a cheap little 50-pt filler ace that can, for ONE action, roll a 3-dice attack, double-mod it, and then screw the defender's dice. If you already have coordinate in your list, Juke puts her up to 57 and makes her effect much stronger. Of course it also makes her super likely to get killed, but that may be exactly what you're after to keep your big ace alive. It all depends. Still seems useful to me either way.

On 6/27/2019 at 1:52 PM, Skitch_ said:

But Dash is SO CLOSE to being really good you guys... Don't pay attention to the fact that they've never made the top half of swiss since January.

I'm fine with Dash being a low tier novelty pick. People had lots of time to table people with their HLC Dash models back in 1.0; its time for other platforms to be viable now.

Thanks for the replies, everyone!

On 6/27/2019 at 6:05 AM, Bucknife said:

@Wazat , taking a close look at the AG, it is helpful to compare it to the V19 Torrent. I think these may be the only two ships to have B.roll+link+red evade.

Cheapest Torrent is 25.

So you're paying THREE POINTS for a more open  and speedy dial, an extra rocket slot, a turret and gunner slot, and very importantly, swapping one hull out for a shield. I wouldn't call it a great trade, but I'd say it's fair.

In that note, I'd keep my AG cheap and use it as a Control Blocker.

Doral Turret and "BT-1" gunner on the Specialist.

33 points and done.

(Edit: sorry, Kestal. Maybe next time )

A fair point. But IMO, I don't want to compare to a Torrent because in-faction matters. What you can pair with a torrent is different from what you can pair with an aggressor, though that might be favorable for the aggressor given the versatility and breadth of Empire. But it hurts when TIE Bombers and other ships are competing for fleet space. Torrents have a nice little niche carved out for them in their faction; the TIE Aggressor does not, nor does it have pilot abilities that matter (other than kestal) the way the wide spread of Torrent pilots do (and their bulky ARC buddies, versatile Aethersprites etc; that Torrent isn't in the same situation as the AG). The AG is the only turret-carrying ship, but no one cares; if you want to use turrets, you'll turn to a different faction or field Decimators. The aggressor is in an awkward place in its faction, and it neither competes with nor easily meshes its faction-mates IMO.

On 6/27/2019 at 11:04 AM, ClassicalMoser said:

Yet another platform screwed by overpriced missiles. Paying 4 points for ion missiles is just disgusting. Is there any ship in the game that would pay more than 2 for that abomination? They all should have come down by 2 points (except barrage and prockets which are fine and should stay rare).

If I were to build her, I'd just use Juke and fly her with Vizier. Focus + Evade basically means the enemy gets no dice so she turns into a mini-Wedge, but coordinate is still useful if she pops. If you want to shell out, 5bro for passive mod and/or ICT could work. Alternatively, barrage with 5bro means you use your focus to shoot, mod with force (and get a juicy crit), and deny their defense with your focus (and evade if handy). Of course, then you're starting to pay actual Wedge prices.

I thought about giving her Juke, but thinking about the timing, it's a lot of investment for mild payoff. The problem is that Kestal wipes focuses and blanks immediately after dice are rolled, before dice modification steps. Thus Juke happens after, so the evade->focus works but that focus doesn't get destroyed by her ability. So Juke will still be nice against a foe with no way to mod the focus, but that's usually not how I want to use Kestal (her job is to murder force users, ships with focus/evade tokens, etc). And Juke is 7 points, and requires either evading instead of focusing, or a support ally to get both. It's too much investment for the effect and turns her into a points pinata, which she already struggles with; it's great on other ships, but maybe not Kestal.

Missiles are indeed in an awkward place. I like barrage rockets and prockets, they're quite useful on certain ships. Cluster Missiles for Torani, always. That's it. As mentioned, the other options are priced conservatively, and/or don't have great synergy with anything.

I like some of the fleet ideas that have 4+ ships, as that takes some heat off of her. TIE Strikers backed by Howlrunner are terrifying, for example, and Kestal becomes a very specialized hunter (targeting force users and token-reliant ships), surrounded by unbridled damage monsters. So perhaps:

• Howlrunner with Elusive
• Kestal with Ruthless + Barrage Rockets + Dorsal Turret
• 2x Planetary Sentinel with Proton Bombs
• 1x Planetary Sentinel
• Perhaps swapping Barrage Rockets for more tricks on the Strikers, though I feel Kestal may need the rockets. She can fly out of formation and pick off targets of opportunity and evasive threats.

...I mean, on some level Kestal's point cost is an issue in the same way that I suppose any ship could be viable as long as it is given a heavy enough discount, but frankly her ability is so mediocre that I think anyone trying to build a list around it is hamstringing themselves.

It's too unreliable. You need to show active paint on dice that you can't spend a Focus on, which is never fun, or alternatively need to invest into Force modifications like Palp and/or Fifth Brother. You could also invest into a squad buddy who could toss her a TL and/or Focus (like Sai).

What would you get out of this investment? Those instances where Kestal is in range & arc of someone who relies on modified evasion dice instead of arc dodging (...so, not exactly a target rich environment), she can neutralize their Focus & blank results. They roll squiggles? Tough luck. They blank out without being capable of modifying their blanks? The ability is wasted.

There are a lot of match-ups where her ability will have 0 added value, and in those matches where her ability would be useful it is too dependent on everything aligning in your favor (when what you actually want is an ability that can tilt the scales in the opposite direction when things are going wrong or that can lock-in an early advantage).


She's chaff. Chaff is always going to exist in a game as big as X-Wing; use her as a point of study for understanding why some abilities that might look good on paper are actually pretty bad and move on with life.