I feel like there were a couple of glaring oversights in the points overhaul. Not so much what was touched, but what wasn't.

I primarily play Rebels, so I'll focus on them: I'm sad they didn't lower the price on the YT-2400 at all. The title is also ridiculously overpriced. I'm sad that the ship's going to collect dust for another 6 months minimum before the points get looked at again. I also feel like A-Wings could have taken a slight reduction. They need ...something... to make them more enticing.

Regarding general upgrades, a bunch of missiles would have been a lot better if they'd been reduced by 2 or so points. Why is Gonk so darn expensive? He's terrible! And I feel like Veteran Tail gunner should be 2 points, maybe even 1, based on how often one actually manages to get it to work.

Other things I just don't get are things like Inertial Dampener. I understand that Handbrake Han was a problem, but I don't know why they'd drop the illicit slot from YT-1300s THEN mess with the points. Dampeners are a mess and pretty terrible on anybody but Han w/R2D2. Better to ban or errata I.D. than to restrict the Falcon's access to some cool Illicits (which also should also have dropped in cost more, IMO).

What about you guys? What stuff do you think should have been changed, but wasn't? What might you do differently. And do you think if there were a large enough consensus, do you think a petition might convince developers to make those changes sooner than 6 months from now?

Firesprays need a reduction, especially Boba. His price went up way too much as part of the nerfs to the Marauder and Han Gunner.

The Moldy Crow title was likely pushed way too high and didn't get touched in this pass. It's good, but it's not 18 points good.

I think all of this ballyhoo over "correct pricing" is beginning to hurt the ethos of the game in a way that is just as bad as broken cards. Maybe worse, because you'll just sit there and not play without "correct points," expecting them to get better "next pass."

So you won't even think about giving a YT-2400 a spin because you think the price is wrong? Maybe try some good upgrades and see if that helps. . .

I have tried, and my friends have. The YT-2400 is so overpriced that there's no room for a decent list, even if you're not trying to make something tourney-worthy.

Also, aren't you the guy who has been waiting a loooong time (and will wait that much longer) just so you can play Epic?

It is impossible to get "correct" points because everyone has a different "correct".

51 minutes ago, MikeEvans said:

Also, aren't you the guy who has been waiting a loooong time (and will wait that much longer) just so you can play Epic?

Yes. But I am also still playing Epic as I may in 1.0 rather than shelving my favorite ships until December.

• The M3-A, especially the Tansarii Point Vet. It has never been particularly good, and with price decreases to the TIE/fo, TIE Adv. v1 and Kihraxz it's not looking any better.
• Illicits. Most of them rarely get used. Contraband Cybernetics came down but I would have liked to see 1 point off Cloaking Device, Feedback Array and DMS as well.
• Single-slot missiles. Again, a lot of them don't get used very often and don't perform well when they are.

2 minutes ago, Ysenhal said:

• The M3-A, especially the Tansarii Point Vet. It has never been particularly good, and with price decreases to the TIE/fo, TIE Adv. v1 and Kihraxz it's not looking any better.
• Illicits. Most of them rarely get used. Contraband Cybernetics came down but I would have liked to see 1 point off Cloaking Device, Feedback Array and DMS as well.
• Single-slot missiles. Again, a lot of them don't get used very often and don't perform well when they are.

+1 to all of the above. I really wish Scyk’s had gotten some love, but maybe the auto-blaster cannon will be just what they need to make a splash.

And I agree about the missiles. Compare Proton Rockets with Advanced Proton Torpedos- there’s no way Prockets should be MORE expensive than APT.

despite legitimate problems, it's kinda difficult to institute sweeping changes of absolutely everything in a single patch and then hope for the best

Esp when you got fun things like baktoids (and v1s!) to keep an eye on

Ffg is REALLY (probably understandly) nervous about passive sensor Ordnance ruining the meta

*PSA*

Every points re-balancing there WILL be "oversights" of what is addressed and what isn't. This is intentional . FFG aggressively prices certain pilots and upgrades to sell more of what is currently available. They are a business, this is their goal. I'm not complaining per say. If they push what's currently good around too drastically, they kill the game, which is bad for everyone. Shifting the meta sells them ships and we want a new meta as well. So that is win win.

Dash should not come down in price. He is 4-attack ship with a crazy powerful ability. The title is overcosted though and currently not worth taking. Don't worry, they will FIX Dash once he gets released again in 2E. Gotta sell that re-release!

@MikeEvans ,

I'm right there with ya on YT24.

Dash is probably fine, but all the other YT24s could stand a slight reduction. Title is very powerful and probably is fine where it is.

Gonk could probably go down to 8 for most applications, but we do have Tavson problem now. We probably shouldn't expect much for Gonk.

Generally agree about Dampners and Falcon. I like the scaling, but probably too expensive at high initiative right now. Should probably be free at I1 and maybe even I2.

Rebel RZ1s are in an AWESOME place, in my opinion. Green Sqdn. with Marksmanship + Procket for only 40 points is a STEAL. (Granted, this is the opinion of a Resistance player who now has to pay 38 points for an I1 RZ2 with Heroic+Optics.... pardon me, I'm just a little grumpy about my more expensive generics...). Point remains: Rebel As with Prockets at any initiative are a great deal .

Last point:

Our game is not a democracy . If the devs want to consider what we talk about on paper or on other media to help make the game better, that's their prerogative.

If nothing else, sharing our opinions, hopes, dreams about the game is good for us as players in that it helps us articulate what we DO enjoy about the game as it stands and how we can continue to enjoy it better based on what we have.

If there's literally no way for us to enjoy it in its current state, that's extremely unfortunate, but it is just a game, and it will probably look different in a few months anyway.

K, I'm done. Thanks for the thread, buddy. Good luck to ya... And put that YT24 on the table! I'll shoot ya a build I've used that seems genuinely fun and competitive...

8 hours ago, Icelom said:

It is impossible to get "correct" points because everyone has a different "correct".

While people may argue as to whether Wedge should go up 1 point or 2 points, no one is arguing that M-3A Interceptors are undercosted. There are plenty of examples where the player base is largely in agreement about how points should be adjusted.

Connor Nets are still 6 points; the same cost as Proximity Mines but they only have a single charge. I don't think I've seen a single list that uses them.

Also, generic TIE Punishers still at a massive 38 points for 2/1/6/3, and need 8+ points of upgrades to make them even slightly useful.

Dash caused a lot of problems around Xmas/Jan time in tournaments. The devs are right in their pricing of him. We dont want to go back to that.

I agree with their pricing of ID. And dropping the slot off the Falcon. They are trying to stop Rebel players card-comboing.

The Scyk or cannon and Missiles should come.down a few points.

I really want initiave scaling on lock based Torpedos and Missiles. It makes so much sense and should open up Munitions on low and mid initiave ships.

Good to see the changes that were made (Dreadloks seems especially targeted, and to a greater extent than other popular lists)

I hope to find the Khiraxz more useful, at 38 it's a solid piece for a list and I want to try Sabine or Asajj in the Shadowcaster.

There is a vast, vast swathe of cards that have basically never been used and also never been touched.

Leia has been brought in 742 hyperspace trial squads, she was in around 21% of squads. Conner nets have been brought twice.

Ion Torpedoes, Rebel 3P0, Scum Lando... and a few dozen more cards that were completely overlooked. And that's just hyperspace - only two people have ever used Bossk gunner in a list that made it onto listfortress, in the entirety of second edition - so either the developers think that somehow of all possible things it would be broken on Jumpmasters or 2pt cheaper YVs, or they just didn't care.

And then, THAT is only upgrades . Captain Cardinal has been used once , ever. Captain Cardinal got nerfed in this update. Like, what on earth?

More holistically, we can look at ship types. Rebel TIEs are the bottom of the pile - the least used ship in 2.0 - and didn't change. Aggressors came down 2/3 points, but their common upgrades went up, so the net is like a one point decrease. TAPs came down a decent amount, so that's cool, and YVs all came down 2 which is maybe not enough but its something. But no decrease to Syck or Scum Falcon (which gets hit by collateral nerfs on top of already being bad)? No change to 2400 actually Dash can stay bad that's fine. Scum Z-95s? Auzitucks? Sadness only.

There are only a few changes I actively dislike, most of them were good. But so, so much missed potential - and now we're here for 6 months, the wave 5 format rotations can't come fast enough.

In hindsight, the point stream was a missed opportunity too - they just told us about changes and then let us see those changes. Really, they should've released the PDFs, given us two weeks to digest them, and then done a stream so they could dig into why certain changes were or weren't made. That would've been more interesting, I think.

12 minutes ago, svelok said:

In hindsight, the point stream was a missed opportunity too - they just told us about changes and then let us see those changes. Really, they should've released the PDFs, given us two weeks to digest them, and then done a stream so they could dig into why certain changes were or weren't made. That would've been more interesting, I think.

I agree TM

I was hoping that we'd actually get points at least a few days before hand and then do the stream so we could get into better Q&As specifically about "why" on certain changes or non changes instead of a bunch of "what" questions (What happened to ____) over and over.

12 hours ago, MikeEvans said:

And I feel like Veteran Tail gunner should be 2 points, maybe even 1

I wanted to comment on this one in particular, and have just one word in response: Wolffe. In addition to him, I think that anything that gives you bonus attacks (no matter how conditional) should be a little pricier.

I do wish missiles had gone down in price, that may be something to make Torrents good for something besides blocking. I think, though, that dropping more than 1 point is a little too much. On the other hand, Energy Shell Charges went up, and I haven’t seen anyone complain about that. Then again, they are essentially an upgrade that makes Vultures conditionally 3 attack ships, and for 5 points, that’s pretty solid on such a dirt cheap platform.

As for A-Wings, I agree. I know that comparing across factions isn’t a great idea, but comparing the 2 types of A is inevitable. Looking at the generics, 3 points gets you a better dial, a rear arc, the ability to rotate arc as a free (red) action, and the tech slot, giving us the glory that is Advanced Optics A-Wings. Resistance also has access to arguably the best single point insurance in the game: Heroic. Literally the only downside? They can’t use outmaneuver. Also, Tallie and Jake are the same cost. Don’t get me wrong, Jake’s ability is (imho) in the running for one of the best in the game, whereas Tallie’s is....not. But Tallie has the aforementioned benefits of the better chassis, AND is an I5. Jake’s double reposition and focus is great, but he can dance all he wants, an I5 or 6 with any reposition ability at all will catch him. At least they fixed L’ulo, but Rebel A-Wings need a drop of 1-2 points across the board (maybe not Jake, he is still really good at his price point)

10 hours ago, Herowannabe said:

+1 to all of the above. I really wish Scyk’s had gotten some love, but maybe the auto-blaster cannon will be just what they need to make a splash.

And I agree about the missiles. Compare Proton Rockets with Advanced Proton Torpedos- there’s no way Prockets should be MORE expensive than APT.

As mentioned by several others, the Scyks should have been looked at, but at the same time, remember we're getting a reissue of them in Wave V - which is going to be releasing before January, and until then, they're mainly used in Extended (I don't think they're Hyperspace legal yet; correct me if I'm wrong). That means that new players will get a chance to use them soon, and makes it that much more likely that we'll see some rebalancing that includes them in the January points update, which is, I think, probably at least part of the rationale.

I can see arguments on both sides, but I think I'd fall on the side that the Prockets are costed fairly, since there are more Missile-carrying platforms available across all seven factions than there are Torpedo-carrying platforms. Just off the top of my head, Scum has the Kihraxz, M3-A, YV-666, Firespray, and YT-1300 for Missiles and the StarViper, M3-A, Jumpmaster, and Fang for Torpedoes. Separatists have Vulture droids, which can EACH equip Prockets, and you can run six in a list with 38 points to spare at current points values (and the Trade Federation Drones are going down a point in a couple of weeks), which in my mind makes the cost appropriate.

The YT-2400 staying put is TOTALLY unacceptable. Listfortress has 3 squads with Dash and NONE with either of the other pilots, and those 3 performed terribly.

Anyone saying Dash is probably fine has never played him in 2.0, or at least not since double-tap Dash was destroyed. He’s got 10hp on 2 green dice, making him like a Lancer in durability, except with an ENORMOUS 120-150pt bounty on his head.

He gets one action a turn and there’s nothing in the game that can change that. Stacking LW with force users gets expensive really fast. And he only gets one attack per turn unless he plays chicken with VTG or shells out for Bistan and PerCop (134 pts before talent and you better not get stressed or blocked)!

Sure he’s powerful but he’s nowhere near the ballpark of Handbrake Han and he costs just as much or more. He has fewer options for mods and positioning. He has fewer slots for crew. He still only throws 3-4 attack dice (unlike the VCX) and he just dies.

Seriously he has no answer to focus fire. There’s no other meaningful threat in his list so he’s always focus-fired. And he dies.

5 points off each pilot and 6 off the title might make them playable but probably won’t. But they got ZERO.

If you think the YT-2400 is OP, good, okay, playable, or otherwise not the most overpriced ship in the game, I’d love you to prove me wrong. Even anecdotal evidence is acceptable as I’ve never even heard of someone winning a casual game with it. I’ve certainly never done it myself.

I can only answer for what I play, and I wish they looked at the internal balance of what I think of as the core ships. E.G. Tie-ln fighters: I think we can clearly see which pilots outperform compared to others. Del and Gideon could have gone up 1 point, with Sukutu down one . That would make it harder for me when list building, and give me more incentive to picking the ability that I felt fitted best with the list, and not just going for the value ones.

I would also like to see Black Squadron down a point. I think it is clear that there are no obvious cheap talents that are great value, so I don't see the need to 'pay for a talent slot'. 23->26 (a 13% price increase!) for 2 initiative on a tie-ln just seems a bit much to ever take.

Now I am quibbling about 1 point here, so NO BIG DEAL. But still, it would have made me happy, to not grit my teeth every time I bring a named tie who isn't called Del or Gideon. (For context, I like mini swarms of 4 ties plus ace. Never touched Iden or Howl myself.)

Tie Interceptors need to go down a point

13 minutes ago, All Shields Forward said:

Tie Interceptors need to go down a point

Generics do for sure. Named ones are probably fine. And the Black Squadron Scout TIE/sk should be 35-36, definitely not the nonsensical 38 that it is. And all the named TIE Strikers should be brought in line too; at the very least Duchess should be 44 to match the others.

16 hours ago, Bucknife said:

@MikeEvans (Granted, this is the opinion of a Resistance player who now has to pay 38 points for an I1 RZ2 with Heroic+Optics.... pardon me, I'm just a little grumpy about my more expensive generics...).

You can still get five Greens with Heroic and Advanced Optics for 200. No need to be *too* grumpy...