31 minutes ago, Goseki1 said:

Is there utility with the Upsilon? In bullseye it's 4 dice at r2, at r1 in bullseye it's 5...

No. Just... no.

1 hour ago, Goseki1 said:

Is there utility with the Upsilon? In bullseye it's 4 dice at r2, at r1 in bullseye it's 5...

Even out of bullseye at range one it's 4 dice, and with mods that could potentially do a lot of damage. 2 points seems good for the opportunities you might get with it.

I realise you have to be out of the defenders arc, but depending on how you play you might get some good shots.

This is an issue I noticed with it back when Autoblasters was first spoiled. If you're going to be anywhere within range 2 or 1 of an Upsilon equipped with one of these you're going to need to have your front arc pointed at it or it could hurt a **** of allot. Not impossible to do, but it is going to limit maneuver options around one to an extent.

2 hours ago, Goseki1 said:

Is there utility with the Upsilon? In bullseye it's 4 dice at r2, at r1 in bullseye it's 5...

Even out of bullseye at range one it's 4 dice, and with mods that could potentially do a lot of damage. 2 points seems good for the opportunities you might get with it.

I realise you have to be out of the defenders arc, but depending on how you play you might get some good shots.

Not really. Upsilons won't really be able to force Bullseye shots, and they don't have any shenanigans to help them get crits in particular. Not that they'll have an easy time getting outside of front arcs (I guess you just wait for an opponent to turn your back, while you stand still).

17 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Not really. Upsilons won't really be able to force Bullseye shots, and they don't have any shenanigans to help them get crits in particular. Not that they'll have an easy time getting outside of front arcs (I guess you just wait for an opponent to turn your back, while you stand still).

Not to mention Upsilon can throw five red at range one naturally without spending points. The utilization is much, much lower on an Upsilon.

I have two B-Wing Autoblaster lists (I so want cannons on the B-Wing to be good )

The first is 3 Bs loaded to the gills.

Rebel Pain Train

Braylen Stramm (51)
Marksmanship (1)
Advanced Sensors (10)
Jamming Beam (0)
Autoblasters (2)
Adv. Proton Torpedoes (6)
Afterburners (6)

Blade Squadron Veteran (43)
Marksmanship (1)
Passive Sensors (3)
Jamming Beam (0)
Autoblasters (2)
Proton Torpedoes (13)

Blade Squadron Veteran (43)
Marksmanship (1)
Passive Sensors (3)
Jamming Beam (0)
Autoblasters (2)
Proton Torpedoes (13)

Total: 200

Seems borderline NPE. You put Braylen in the center and the other 2 about R2-R3 on one or both sides of him, nice and spread out. There's basically no way to avoid at least one or two full protorp shots to the face, and whatever you do decide to nuke, the others are going to sweep in behind you and Autoblast you to death. Cleanup follows as the Bs outlive everything that can survive a PS Protorp blast. You can drop Braylen's APTs and/or ABs for a bid against I4 but that's a meta call.

Second list:
Classic Cannons

Blade Squadron Veteran (43)
Marksmanship (1)
Autoblasters (2)
Heavy Laser Cannon (4)

Blade Squadron Veteran (43)
Marksmanship (1)
Autoblasters (2)
Heavy Laser Cannon (4)

Blade Squadron Veteran (43)
Marksmanship (1)
Autoblasters (2)
Heavy Laser Cannon (4)

Blade Squadron Veteran (43)
Marksmanship (1)
Autoblasters (2)
Heavy Laser Cannon (4)

Total: 200 points

Sure Marksmanship and HLC is a nonbo, but between HLC and Markoblaster these guys can pack some punch in bullseye at any range. They can catch large ships and I1-2 easily, and they can outlive most things that are higher initiative than them even without the cannons. Deployment depends on the opponent but you'll always want to set up a flanking situation so you can tear things apart from multiple angles with AB or else set up bullseye killboxes for HLC. These are B-Wings that you have to think and plan carefully with to win. The best thing? Even if you miss the bullseye, it's still 4 B-Wings! So you have plenty of health on 4 3-die attacks with linked focus-roll whenever you need it.

41 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

I have two B-Wing Autoblaster lists (I so want cannons on the B-Wing to be good )

Now consider how much better gunboats can do it and cry

Nu Squadron
Passive Sensors
Plasma Torps
XG1
Advanced Slam
Autoblasters
49pts

If you drop munitions on one, you can run bump it up to 4x Rho with Marksmanship, and one of those can optionally sub out for Vynder/Diamond Boron/Passive/OG1/Advanced Slam


Generic Bs are in weird a place at the moment. There is no mechanic that allows them to better weapons carriers than 2die options. In fact there are no upgrades that are particularly efficient at all. BBBBZeb is prob the best way to run them atm.

I'm certainly interested in using Autoblasters with IG-88B and friends

12 minutes ago, prauxim said:

Now consider how much better gunboats can do it and cry

Nu Squadron
Passive Sensors
Plasma Torps
XG1
Advanced Slam
Autoblasters
49pts

If you drop munitions on one, you can run bump it up to 4x Rho with Marksmanship, and one of those can optionally sub out for Vynder/Diamond Boron/Passive/OG1/Advanced Slam


Generic Bs are in weird a place at the moment. There is no mechanic that allows them to better weapons carriers than 2die options. In fact there are no upgrades that are particularly efficient at all. BBBBZeb is prob the best way to run them atm.

Agree they're in a bad place, but disagree that BBBBZeb is the best way to run them. SLAM and PS don't work together and losing FCS is pretty significant. They're better bullseye-weapon carriers than 2-die ships because a) they have focus-roll which is significant at I3-4 and b) they have a much better attack when they don't land bullseye.

I will make cannon-Bs work, by hook or crook! Maybe a torp alpha isn't the answer, but it's nice to have something that fits neatly in its sensor slot at last.

My main beef is that I don't play Resistance or prequels, so the soonest I can expect to get PS or Autoblasters is... December...

I'm more likely to buy secondary or break faction before then. Ugh... FFG WHY do you wait so long for the card packs!

6 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

I will        make cannon-Bs work, by hook or crook! Maybe a torp alpha isn't the answer, but it's  nice  to have something that fits neatly in its sensor  slot at last       .

For the cost of A-Prots you can slot collision detector in.

2 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

For the cost of A-Prots you can slot collision detector in.

I had full protons with PS on the blades and Braylen has AS. Never found much use for CD on B-Wings, but I've been told I tend to underrate that upgrade in general.

10 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

My main beef is that I don't play Resistance or prequels, so the soonest I can expect to get PS or Autoblasters is... December...

I'm more likely to buy secondary or break faction before then. Ugh... FFG WHY do you wait so long for the card packs!

you could always buy something that has the upgrades you want in it and then sell the model and other contents in the secondary market. then you'd have them day one. I'm thinking about that for multiple copies.

1 minute ago, PanchoX1 said:

you could always buy something that has the upgrades you want in it and then sell the model and other contents in the secondary market. then you'd have them day one. I'm thinking about that for multiple copies.

Really not a bad idea. OTOH, not sure if people want to buy the N-1 or Transport without them. Also possibly more hassle than it's worth. Wondering what Henry's Outpost will sell them for in July...

31 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Agree they're in a bad place, but disagree that BBBBZeb is the best way to run them. SLAM and PS don't work together and losing FCS is pretty significant. They're better bullseye-weapon carriers than 2-die ships because a) they have focus-roll which is significant at I3-4 and b) they have a much better attack when they don't land bullseye.

I will make cannon-Bs work, by hook or crook! Maybe a torp alpha isn't the answer, but it's nice to have something that fits neatly in its sensor slot at last.

PS/Plasma is for the alpha strike/shield stripping, you slam/focus/auto-blaster most turns after the initial engagement. IMO, sadly, that eats any current BBBB variant for breakfast.

You are right that one of Bs key assets are BR->Focus, but there's not currently any good way to leverage it. PS and FCS are both sort-of anti-synergistic with it (or the very least, the synergy is worse than with other sensor platforms that are cheaper). HLC is sort of synergistic with it but not working at R1 is rough on a ship that's so good at blocking.

CD + Trickshot was cool when TS was 1, maybe 2, but not an option at 4

Squadleader was cool at 4 on Ten but dead currently

AS was cool when you could run 4x BLue AS or TenBray + 2x Blue AS but both of those are dead now

As much as I hate to say it, bwing loadouts have been marching on a steady path from bleh to bad

19 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

I had full protons with PS on the blades and Braylen has AS. Never found much use for CD on B-Wings, but I've been told I tend to underrate that upgrade in general.

If you're doing the focus barrel roll link combo it opens up where you can do it a fair bit. Allows you to barrel roll over a gas cloud with 0 negatives as long as you didn't fly through or overlap it during your maneuver.

2 minutes ago, prauxim said:

You  are right that one of Bs key assets are BR  ->Focus 

It's focus>barrel roll. Braylen wouldn't work as efficiently if they were reversed.

What about Gavin with a couple Marksmen/Auto B’s? Guaranteed 2 crits when you can line it up?

12 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:

What about Gavin with a couple Marksmen/Auto B’s? Guaranteed 2 crits when you can line it up?

And 1 even when you can't line it up as long as you're outside arc, just as long as you get a hit. Probably too much investment in something that's too hard to set up though. I could be wrong; I don't know E-Wings worth anything.

5 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

And 1 even when you can't line it up as long as you're outside arc, just as long as you get a hit. Probably too much investment in something that's too hard to set up though. I could be wrong; I don't know E-Wings worth anything.

Gavin is good. 3 auto blaster Blades with marksmanship plus Gavin is 199.

Christ on a cracker I want nothing to do with facing that squad. Honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if that starts turning up at top tables, that is going to murder anything that relies on green dice at all.

15 minutes ago, millertime059 said:

Gavin is good. 3 auto blaster Blades with marksmanship plus Gavin is 199.

Christ on a cracker I want nothing to do with facing that squad. Honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if that starts turning up at top tables, that is going to murder anything that relies on green dice at all.

Dang, I didn’t think 3 would fit with him. If I had three B-Wings and my 1e models weren’t all broken I’d give that a shot.

3 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:

Dang, I didn’t think 3 would fit with him. If I had three B-Wings and my 1e models weren’t all broken I’d give that a shot.

I suspect if your models weren’t broken before, they would be after the first time you faced someone flying a list with like 12 total health.

18 minutes ago, millertime059 said:

I suspect if your models weren’t broken before, they would be after the first time you faced someone flying a list with like 12 total health.

But how are you getting outmaneuver shots on Vader within range 2?

1 minute ago, ClassicalMoser said:

But how are you getting outmaneuver shots on Vader within range 2?

Vader options:

don't joust, and hope to get shots at some point. Oops without boost they caught you at the edge of range 2 anyhow, and they ‘only’ guarantee 3 damage from Gavin’s mod.

joust, and eat 4x 3 dice modded shots anyhow

there is a vast gulf in the disparity of burden of execution. For many lists, and especially most Empire lists, you need to play perfectly all game, make one mistake, or simply be just in range despite good play, and there goes a big part of your list.

Its not unbeatable, but if I were to devise some form of ‘hard counter’ to Soontir, Vader, Anakin, Fenn etc, that is pretty close to it.

4 minutes ago, millertime059 said:

Vader options:

don't joust, and hope to get shots at some point. Oops without boost they caught you at the edge of range 2 anyhow, and they ‘only’ guarantee 3 damage from Gavin’s mod.

joust, and eat 4x 3 dice modded shots anyhow

there is a vast gulf in the disparity of burden of execution. For many lists, and especially most Empire lists, you need to play perfectly all game, make one mistake, or simply be just in range despite good play, and there goes a big part of your list.

Its not unbeatable, but if I were to devise some form of ‘hard counter’ to Soontir, Vader, Anakin, Fenn etc, that is pretty close to it.

Fitting for Autoblasters thematically and historically.

What I’m hearing is “don’t get caught or you will be punished.” Maybe SR is worth 24/32 after all?

And let me be clear, as someone who doesn’t like the preponderance of I5/6 ships, and the reliance of the meta on them, I’m all for taking them down a peg.

I’m just pointing out that I suspect my theoretical list is going to run roughshod over so many things that I suspect something in its vein becomes a major part of the meta.