4 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

I like Zuck. He's good. Was a little disappointed he didn't drop.... 2?

He's too easy to stack upgrades on and kinda adds up. Without anything added, his extra dice, wonky dial and rapidly disappearing health make it a tricky 45pt to justify. Kavil plus Dorsal is 46.

That puts him at 43, only 2 points more than thenI1, and with a fairly strong ability. For a craft with 9 health. The Blade B goes from I2 to I3 and is 2 points above the Blue.

And the B is still the closest comp, and in comparison it trades some tricks for others. You have to pay 2 to get the barrel roll, but get jam and more health.

No, I think he’ll be fine, and any points reduction opens up too much room for abuse. His big issue was the wing mates and himself being outclassed by Rebel Beef. But now that Ten and Braylen got hit with the nerf bat I think he has room to shine.

57 minutes ago, millertime059 said:

That puts him at 43, only 2 points more than thenI1, and with a fairly strong ability. For a craft with 9 health. The Blade B goes from I2 to I3 and is 2 points above the Blue.

And the B is still the closest comp, and in comparison it trades some tricks for others. You have to pay 2 to get the barrel roll, but get jam and more health.

No, I think he’ll be fine, and any points reduction opens up too much room for abuse. His big issue was the wing mates and himself being outclassed by Rebel Beef. But now that Ten and Braylen got hit with the nerf bat I think he has room to shine.

Fair enough. I don't really compare across most factions, just because I'm not familiar enough with their power relative to cost.

Like I say, I think he's good. I'm happy to try and abuse him at 45

Though it costs me a little bit more than that

2 things are absolutely inexcusable:

1. NO change to the YT-2400 whatsoever. Every YT2400 should have gone down 5.

2. NO reduction to single-slot lock-based missiles. Every lock-based missile should have gone down 2.

The YT-2400 would be worth its points if it could a) punch worth anything or b) stay alive. As is, it can't do either. It's a massive free-points target that can't dodge worth anything, only gets single-modded attacks, and usually modless 2-die defenses. It dies like a Jumpmaster but pays for 2.

The missiles aren't that good. at 2-4 points it becomes an important consideration to A-Wings, TIE Aggressors, Punishers, Bombers, Torrents, Vultures, and so on. As it stands they're rarely taken and never an effective use of points. The action economy is poor, low-I ships struggle to get the lock and keep it, and a single-modded 3-attack isn't that much better for the work that has to be put in, especially with a 1-damage cap. 6 more months of brain-dead barrage bombers and procket aces. 6 more months of ESC and discord vultures. 6 more months of empty missile slots on everything else. They're absolute rubbish.

The increased price to Proton Torpedoes. They're already too expensive to add to anything as is. (Maybe they help the Y-Wing)?

18 minutes ago, Mark Caliber said:

The increased price to Proton Torpedoes. They're already too expensive to add to anything as is. (Maybe they help the Y-Wing)?

No actually it makes sense. They're extremely expensive but extremely powerful. Even on Y-Wings. Now that Passive Sensors are a thing I shudder to think of 3x Proton B-Wings and the like.

Try this:

Braylen Stramm (51)
Marksmanship (1)
Advanced Sensors (10)
Jamming Beam (0)
Autoblasters (2)
Adv. Proton Torpedoes (6)
Afterburners (6)

Blade Squadron Veteran (43)
Marksmanship (1)
Passive Sensors (3)
Jamming Beam (0)
Autoblasters (2)
Proton Torpedoes (13)

Blade Squadron Veteran (43)
Marksmanship (1)
Passive Sensors (3)
Jamming Beam (0)
Autoblasters (2)
Proton Torpedoes (13)

Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Rebel Alliance&d=v7!s=200!73:125,111,12,232,134,105:;75:125,240,12,232,136,:;75:125,240,12,232,136,:&sn=Beef Jerky&obs=

That's 3 fat B-Wings, but you spread them out and get a solid Alpha, then envelop them in a guaranteed outmaneuver. AS Braylen knife-fights like a champ with AB and APT depending on his target. Maybe drop the APTs for a bid, but this squad is mean . Reminds me of 1e Firestorm Special.

4 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

No actually it makes sense. They're extremely expensive but extremely powerful. Even on Y-Wings. Now that Passive Sensors are a thing I shudder to think of 3x Proton B-Wings and the like.

It took me a while to figure out what you meant with the passive sensors. Yikes! That would make Triple B-Wings with Protorps a force to reckon with . . . (Temporarily).

Now I just need to get my hands on a third B-Wing dial . . . (To e-bay).

Oh and I don't have any Passive Sensor cards.

So, yeah Passive Sensors with Protorps has a nice synergy, but I still think that Protorps are too expensive. For 3 B-Wings that's 39 points and you're almost better off spending that on a fourth ship that isn't limited to two shots only.

6 minutes ago, Mark Caliber said:

So, yeah Passive Sensors with Protorps has a nice synergy, but I still think that Protorps are too expensive. For 3 B-Wings that's 39 points and you're almost better off spending that on a fourth ship that isn't limited to two shots only.

Too expensive? Maybe too expensive for them to be used all the time. Definitely not too expensive to be good (and scary good) when you do use them. It's great that Torp ships are finally punching worth their weight in 2e. More options like Plasma and APT are useful, though Ion should probably go down to 4ish. Whatever the B-Wings don't kill with those torps is going to have a hard time eating them before getting Autoblasted to death. It's kind of thematic and probably more what B-Wings should feel like. We'll see how it shakes out.

4x N1 with PS and Protorps though? That legitimately scares me. Of course, I expect that means PS should go up to 4 or so. Protorps aren't the problem there.

zuckuss and 4-LOM are tanks, its just their dial is horrible and too clunky wout adv sensors for my tastes. title on them is cheap. id have liked to see them both drop by 2pts. alternatively a drop to adv sensors upgrade but that would have impacted other ships like starvipers so i see why they didnt do that.

Now that we've totally thread jacked this topic

I've flown a LOT of triple Rebel fighters (Including triple fat B's [I borrowed a dial for that from a friend]) this year and found that the points were actually better spent on putting a fourth ship on the table. That fourth ship (any X-Wing or B-Wing) puts an equal number of attack dice as the Protorps he's replacing plus adds 6+ hit points that need to be chewed through.

So yeah. Proton Torpedoes are mathematically too expensive at 12 points each.

7 minutes ago, Mark Caliber said:

Proton Torpedoes are mathematically too expensive at 12 points each.

Anecdotes aside, mathematically, my statistical-algorithmic model upped them to 13 as well, based strictly on how often they were taken and how well they did for their points, so... \_(ツ)_/

3 hours ago, millertime059 said:

Zuckuss is fine, seen lots of play locally before. The only reason I don’t see him currently is because a lot of Scum players hopped on Separatists.

4-Lom is better, but Zuckuss is a solid heavy puncher. -6 on him would be insane and very very broken.

2 hours ago, Cuz05 said:

I like Zuck. He's good. Was a little disappointed he didn't drop.... 2?

He's too easy to stack upgrades on and kinda adds up. Without anything added, his extra dice, wonky dial and rapidly disappearing health make it a tricky 45pt to justify. Kavil plus Dorsal is 46.

I weep that Zuck (really the G-1A in general) didn’t get much help. Trick Shot seemed like it was worth considering, and it still might be, but the increased price creates some incentive to consider other options.

But, Scum complaints aside, I’m pleased with the way that FO and Resistance are looking. FO was fun but spendy; now maybe it’s just fun. And while I’m new to Resistance (still haven’t flown it in 2.0, lol), it looks a lot more viable to include one or more Scavenged YTs!

2 minutes ago, CoffeeMinion said:

it looks a lot more viable to include one or more Scavenged YTs!

2x Cobalt + Proton Bombs fits with Rey pilot and title. Pretty much all you need to know!

58 minutes ago, Mark Caliber said:

Now that we've totally thread jacked this topic

I've flown a LOT of triple Rebel fighters (Including triple fat B's [I borrowed a dial for that from a friend]) this year and found that the points were actually better spent on putting a fourth ship on the table. That fourth ship (any X-Wing or B-Wing) puts an equal number of attack dice as the Protorps he's replacing plus adds 6+ hit points that need to be chewed through.

So yeah. Proton Torpedoes are mathematically too expensive at 12 points each.

Not really.

3x 4 attack dice is better than 4x 3 attack dice if your opponent is rolling any green dice.
The more green dice they roll, the better the 3x 4 dice list gets.

1 hour ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Too expensive? Maybe too expensive for them to be used all the time. Definitely not too expensive to be good (and scary good) when you do use them. It's great that Torp ships are finally punching worth their weight in 2e. More options like Plasma and APT are useful, though Ion should probably go down to 4ish. Whatever the B-Wings don't kill with those torps is going to have a hard time eating them before getting Autoblasted to death. It's kind of thematic and probably more what B-Wings should feel like. We'll see how it shakes out.

4x N1 with PS and Protorps though? That legitimately scares me. Of course, I expect that means PS should go up to 4 or so. Protorps aren't the problem there.

4 N1's scare you? You sweet summer child.

Howabout 4 Nu Squadron (Gunboats), with passive sensors, protorps and autoblasters?

1 minute ago, Crimsonwarlock said:

4 N1's scare you? You sweet summer child.

Howabout 4 Nu Squadron (Gunboats), with passive sensors, protorps and autoblasters?

That's not as scary because they're either very slow or they can't PS. SLAM and PS both have to be in your "perform action" step, so you have to decide between the two.

Gunboats also can't get behind you as well as the N-1 and are probably easier to catch/kill.

9 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

That's not as scary because they're either very slow or they can't PS. SLAM and PS both have to be in your "perform action" step, so you have to decide between the two.

Gunboats also can't get behind you as well as the N-1 and are probably easier to catch/kill.

Fair point.

This might be stronger then.

Nu Squadron Pilot (32)
Passive Sensors (3)
Proton Torpedoes (13)
Advanced SLAM (3)
Os-1 Arsenal Loadout (0)

Ship total: 51 Half Points: 26 Threshold: 4

Nu Squadron Pilot (32)
Passive Sensors (3)
Proton Torpedoes (13)
Advanced SLAM (3)
Os-1 Arsenal Loadout (0)

Ship total: 51 Half Points: 26 Threshold: 4

Nu Squadron Pilot (32)
Passive Sensors (3)
Proton Torpedoes (13)
Advanced SLAM (3)
Os-1 Arsenal Loadout (0)

Ship total: 51 Half Points: 26 Threshold: 4

Nu Squadron Pilot (32)
Passive Sensors (3)
Plasma Torpedoes (9)
Advanced SLAM (3)
Os-1 Arsenal Loadout (0)

Ship total: 47 Half Points: 24 Threshold: 4


Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Galactic Empire&d=v7!s=200!164:240,136,,104,139:U.-1,U.-1;164:240,136,,104,139:U.-1,U.-1;164:240,136,,104,139:U.-1,U.-1;164:240,234,,104,139:U.-1,U.-1&sn=New Squadron&obs=

7 minutes ago, Crimsonwarlock said:

Fair point.

This might be stronger then.

Nu Squadron Pilot (32)
Passive Sensors (3)
Proton Torpedoes (13)
Advanced SLAM (3)
Os-1 Arsenal Loadout (0)

Ship total: 51 Half Points: 26 Threshold: 4

Nu Squadron Pilot (32)
Passive Sensors (3)
Proton Torpedoes (13)
Advanced SLAM (3)
Os-1 Arsenal Loadout (0)

Ship total: 51 Half Points: 26 Threshold: 4

Nu Squadron Pilot (32)
Passive Sensors (3)
Proton Torpedoes (13)
Advanced SLAM (3)
Os-1 Arsenal Loadout (0)

Ship total: 51 Half Points: 26 Threshold: 4

Nu Squadron Pilot (32)
Passive Sensors (3)
Plasma Torpedoes (9)
Advanced SLAM (3)
Os-1 Arsenal Loadout (0)

Ship total: 47 Half Points: 24 Threshold: 4


Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Galactic Empire&d=v7!s=200!164:240,136,,104,139:U.-1,U.-1;164:240,136,,104,139:U.-1,U.-1;164:240,136,,104,139:U.-1,U.-1;164:240,234,,104,139:U.-1,U.-1&sn=New Squadron&obs=

Yeah, ok, that's pretty scary.

I look forward to the coming meta with great enthusiasm!

1 hour ago, ClassicalMoser said:

2x Cobalt + Proton Bombs fits with Rey pilot and title. Pretty much all you need to know!

Lol, and I was so convinced that I wasn’t gonna play Resistance in 2.0. The irony of having sent you my Resistance YT is not lost on me!

But at least I can make the excuse now that my Rebel Falcon is “scavenged” because it’s just about the only Rebel ship I’ve got left. 😝

Just now, CoffeeMinion said:

Lol, and I was so convinced that I wasn’t gonna play Resistance in 2.0. The irony of having sent you my Resistance YT is not lost on me!

But at least I can make the excuse now that my Rebel Falcon is “scavenged” because it’s just about the only Rebel ship I’ve got left. 😝

Haha I thought you had 2 or I wouldn't have taken it! Don't worry; it will be well-used.

Note that passive sensors doesn't work with advanced SLAM though... you get your stress and then can't perform the lock action when you activate.

Also you probably want some sort of way to toss focii to your torp carriers. I think people are going to quickly discover how meh single modded torpedoes feel

37 minutes ago, punkUser said:

Note that passive sensors doesn't work with advanced SLAM though... you get your stress and then can't perform the lock action when you activate.

Also you probably want some sort of way to toss focii to your torp carriers. I think people are going to quickly discover how meh single modded torpedoes feel

And on top of being the torps only having a single mod, Passive Sensors also means you won't have any defensive mods to modify your green dice. N-1s may end up with an Evade token, at least.

That penalty isn't quite as harsh as it was before the Juke nerf, but it's still not great.

Lowering the floor with Vultures to 19 and the cost of Struts to 1 made perfect sense.

They'll need that breathing room to stay on the table with Hyenas and TIE/FOs running amuck.

Really surprised that the floor didn't lower on TIE/ln, Syck, or Z's by a point as well.

I guess Seps need something special.

EDIT:

Juke to 7 was.... annoying for me.

I'd really like to feel like I could use the strategy of Juke on a ship that doesn't get a free evade, like my A-Wings or TIE/ln, but I guess its a matter of programming priority. Or maybe even just game design priority.

Oh, well. Maybe later.

On 6/26/2019 at 1:12 PM, Mark Caliber said:

Now that we've totally thread jacked this topic

I've flown a LOT of triple Rebel fighters (Including triple fat B's [I borrowed a dial for that from a friend]) this year and found that the points were actually better spent on putting a fourth ship on the table. That fourth ship (any X-Wing or B-Wing) puts an equal number of attack dice as the Protorps he's replacing plus adds 6+ hit points that need to be chewed through.

So yeah. Proton Torpedoes are mathematically too expensive at 12 points each.

The old my person opinion + anecdote = math.

On 6/26/2019 at 8:31 AM, MalusCalibur said:

The other big shock was just how hard the Phantom got hit again - the 'Quad Phantom' list needed to be addressed, but it could have been done delicately by increasing the cost of the Sigma Squadron Ace in order to limit the number of Jukes (I'm not sure that needed to go up again either, but that's a seperate discussion) available by virtue of points. Instead it feels like the whole thing got hit with a sledgehammer, and I'm really not convinced the named ones needed to go up any further.

Just thinking about the Phantom for a sec: it seems like an interesting ship to compare to a Starviper.

Same 3 red dice. Same total health, but a different hull/shield split. Phantoms have the decloaks, Starvipers have the bendy barrel rolls. Phantoms have free Evade actions on 2 green dice, Starvipers have 3 green dice.

Black Sun Assassin and Sigma Squadron Ace are both 48 with a Talent slot. Black Sun Enforcer is 2 points more than a Imdaar Test Pilot. Generic Phantoms are an initiative higher than Generic Starvipers.

Would I *like* a cost decrease in Starvipers? Sure. Do they *need* it? Probably not really. The generic Phantom seems pretty similar. A ship which is probably still fair, and certainly interesting to fly.