I’ve played against a good amount of Republic lists and I’ve only flew against two players that made consistent use of Synchronized Console. The others just either didn’t use SC or didn’t have it in their list. Anyone else use Synchronized Console consistently?
Synchronized Console
4 minutes ago, pakirby said:I’ve played against a good amount of Republic lists and I’ve only flew against two players that made consistent use of Synchronized Console. The others just either didn’t use SC or didn’t have it in their list. Anyone else use Synchronized Console consistently?
I've put in a few games with it.
One of my early Republic lists was Mace/Lumi/Saesee, all with SynCon. I'd lent the list to a friend, so he could give the new stuff a shot. SynCon seemed cool. Usually there was someone relatively safe, able to pass off a lock to someone in Range 1 or such.
Flew Ani (otherwise standard R2/7B)/Jag/Sinker with SynCon for like 6 games. SynCon seemed worthwhile, but the list had a tendency towards bloody games, losing a lot of points from the ARCs and it wasn't really my style. Ani was pretty easily able to lock at Init 6, reroll with Sinker, pass the lock to Sinker after. Jag might pick up a lock from someone attacking Sinker, then pass it over to Sinker, if Ani didn't.
I kind of think the tricky missile stuff, high init ship getting locks for Torrents, is probably a trap. The cost doesn't really scale too well into a large list, and the low-init ship who gets a lock passed to them becomes a potential target. If they get killed before they shoot, your points and tricks didn't amount to anything.
However, at like 6 points in a 3-ship list, SynCon is essentially a coordinate where you get to wait until after you roll the dice to decide if you want to use the action for yourself, or give it to a friend. I mean, it's limited to Lock actions, but it still seems OK. If ever I get around to flying SNR Obi/Sense Ani in a two-ship list, I'm strongly considering SynCon. Seems like the plain action sharing could be useful.
Probably just me but I found that every ship needs synchronized console, I wasn’t able to reliably keep ships within range 1 of a ship with sync con. If everyone has sync con I could pass locks up to range 3. My problem as was that I’d spend my lock before I could make use of sync con.
1 hour ago, pakirby said:Probably just me but I found that every ship needs synchronized console, I wasn’t able to reliably keep ships within range 1 of a ship with sync con. If everyone has sync con I could pass locks up to range 3. My problem as was that I’d spend my lock before I could make use of sync con.
Yeah, I think it might be awkward with fewer than full SynCon, but I could maybe see Jag try to run it without the rest of the list getting them.
As to spending a lock, a Jedi has around a 40% chance to have a lock go unspent under the assumption that any blanks will get rerolled. With Sinker, that goes up to like an 80% chance to keep the lock.
34 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:Yeah, I think it might be awkward with fewer than full SynCon, but I could maybe see Jag try to run it without the rest of the list getting them.
As to spending a lock, a Jedi has around a 40% chance to have a lock go unspent under the assumption that any blanks will get rerolled. With Sinker, that goes up to like an 80% chance to keep the lock.
How did you come up with the 40% and 80% values?
I use it in my quad Arcs list on two of the ARCs only, Jag and a 104th. People ignore the 104th, let him be aggressive and get range 1 and can get a lock from Jag. And Arcs are a bigger base, and 2 outta 4 are usually near the other two. But basically, Sinker dies first, Wollfe has his own reroll, so Jag and 104th can still reroll with synch after Sinker goes down.
“Jag” (49)
Synchronized Console (2)
104th Battalion Pilot (42)
Synchronized Console (2)
“Sinker” (54)
“Wolffe” (51)
Total: 200
8 hours ago, pakirby said:How did you come up with the 40% and 80% values?
The Dice Probability Calculator from Gate of Storms has a "chance to keep tokens" section at the bottom.
http://xwing.gateofstorms.net/2/multi/?d=AAAAAAAAAAAA&a1=MwIAAAAAAAAA
http://xwing.gateofstorms.net/2/multi/?d=AAAAAAAAAAAA&a1=MwIAAAAEAAAA
The trick with using the sync. console is that sometimes you need to be willing to eat a bad roll (maybe more risk the marginal rolls not getting anything through) in order to save the lock and pass it for another ship. Using the console is one part of setting up a better attack down the road. Sometimes an action is neither here nor there this turn but next turn it is a key bonus.
I think sometimes we get caught up in having to get something out of every upgrade every turn. Also we can get caught up in the idea that we don't use an upgrade in a particular game and that means we won't use it in the next.
Why not just use it to enable missile strategies? I present you this:
Obi-Wan Kenobi (47)
Brilliant Evasion (3)
Synchronized Console (2)
Ship total: 52 Half Points: 26 Threshold: 2
Blue Squadron Protector (28)
Dedicated (1)
Homing Missiles (5)
Synchronized Console (2)
Ship total: 36 Half Points: 18 Threshold: 3
Blue Squadron Protector (28)
Dedicated (1)
Homing Missiles (5)
Synchronized Console (2)
Ship total: 36 Half Points: 18 Threshold: 3
Blue Squadron Protector (28)
Dedicated (1)
Homing Missiles (5)
Synchronized Console (2)
Ship total: 36 Half Points: 18 Threshold: 3
Blue Squadron Protector (28)
Dedicated (1)
Homing Missiles (5)
Synchronized Console (2)
Ship total: 36 Half Points: 18 Threshold: 3
Total: 196
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0:
https://raithos.github.io/?f=Galactic Republic&d=v8ZsZ200Z278X199WWW211Y320X210W100W211Y320X210W100W211Y320X210W100W211Y320X210W100W211&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=
5 hours ago, LeMightyASP said:Why not just use it to enable missile strategies? I present you this:
There's a few reasons.
- First, it's fairly expensive on a fairly squishy ship. Passive Sensor builds on something like a TIE/sf are a bit more expensive, but a TIE/sf has two firing arcs and more health, and each ship is actually independent of the rest of the squad.
- Second, it requires a really awkward Obi-Wan. No Configuration means he's pretty weak in terms of his own guns. Even CLT can be a big improvement to an Aethersprite's attacks, but CLT and Synchronized Console both share the Modification slot. Obi-Wan also has to Lock as his action, which maybe leaves him in a weak position, or
- Third, it's actually pretty easy to break the chain. An opponent can burn down the one Blue Squadron who had the lock passed to it, and then your entire list cannot shoot their Missiles. With Dedicated on everyone, plus taking an Evade action, the Torrent has a decent chance to live, but dang the Dedicated package is expensive, 4 points more than a Gold Trooper.
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Fourth, the payoff isn't actually that big. 4 damage a round is the end result of the entire list, and it can only do the trick twice.
- A squad of five TIE/sf with Passive Sensors and Homing Missiles will do 5 damage, you can change targets as you need to, and have rear guns which can make cleaning up the next round a snap.
- A more boring Obi-Wan with 7B plus a few 104th Squadron ARCs and/or Ric Ollie will probably do more than 4 damage per round.
- Or Sinker Swarm, if you want to support a large number of Torrents. Sinker and Five (rather than 4) Blue Torrents with Dedicated will fit. That'll probably do more damage overall, as well as be fairly tanky with Dedicated. It'll also be easier, without having to rely on Obi-Wan grabbing a lock. Just keep your loose formation and you'll be fine. You can switch targets as needed, and you'll be a lot scarrier to a low-agility, high-health ship.
It's a cute trick, maybe it'd be fun to fly (but I doubt I'd have fun with it), and even if it gets to the destination, it's certainly taking the LONG way around.
7 hours ago, theBitterFig said:There's a few reasons.
- First, it's fairly expensive on a fairly squishy ship. Passive Sensor builds on something like a TIE/sf are a bit more expensive, but a TIE/sf has two firing arcs and more health, and each ship is actually independent of the rest of the squad.
- Second, it requires a really awkward Obi-Wan. No Configuration means he's pretty weak in terms of his own guns. Even CLT can be a big improvement to an Aethersprite's attacks, but CLT and Synchronized Console both share the Modification slot. Obi-Wan also has to Lock as his action, which maybe leaves him in a weak position, or
- Third, it's actually pretty easy to break the chain. An opponent can burn down the one Blue Squadron who had the lock passed to it, and then your entire list cannot shoot their Missiles. With Dedicated on everyone, plus taking an Evade action, the Torrent has a decent chance to live, but dang the Dedicated package is expensive, 4 points more than a Gold Trooper.
- Fourth, the payoff isn't actually that big. 4 damage a round is the end result of the entire list, and it can only do the trick twice.
- A squad of five TIE/sf with Passive Sensors and Homing Missiles will do 5 damage, you can change targets as you need to, and have rear guns which can make cleaning up the next round a snap.
- A more boring Obi-Wan with 7B plus a few 104th Squadron ARCs and/or Ric Ollie will probably do more than 4 damage per round.
- Or Sinker Swarm, if you want to support a large number of Torrents. Sinker and Five (rather than 4) Blue Torrents with Dedicated will fit. That'll probably do more damage overall, as well as be fairly tanky with Dedicated. It'll also be easier, without having to rely on Obi-Wan grabbing a lock. Just keep your loose formation and you'll be fine. You can switch targets as needed, and you'll be a lot scarrier to a low-agility, high-health ship.
It's a cute trick, maybe it'd be fun to fly (but I doubt I'd have fun with it), and even if it gets to the destination, it's certainly taking the LONG way around.
To your 1st point, that's what the dedicated package is for. Do the math. It's incredibly difficult to burn down a torrent (or obi) when there's 3 dedicated ships nearby and you have up to 3 focus.
To your second point, Obi isn't that awkward. Sure, he doesn't get the focus result, but aside that he is the same, he can still carry late game with lock + force at range 1 and brilliant evasion is there to make sure he doesn't miss the focus on defense.
To your third point, dedicated heavily discourages you from breaking the chain. Besides, the reason homing missiles aren't very good is because it forces you to take an action that you can't really utilize. With synchro, you can take a focus, which means that you can spend it on defense and also allows you to spend it on your 4 dice attack if anyone takes the bait.
To your 4th point, the payoff isn't the guaranteed damage, but rather the defensive consistency you get by not having to commit resources into your attacks; Sfs are great, but you will be stuck with a lock you can't use; Sure, Obi and 3 arcs is a tested and proven archetype, but the arcs burn down fast under focus fire. As for Obi, sure, 7B is much better than what i built, but it's a lot more points invested than what I have to invest; Sinker is actually much more awkward position-wise than synchro, as synchro works range 1-3 and sinker only works range 1-2 on his side arcs; with 4 torrents and sinker rerolls, agains a 2 agility ship with focus, you're only expected to do 3.450 damage.
I have only flown this list once, and i won 200-13 against 3 a-wings + plus a heavy Corran Horn. Not much to take conclusions from, but i can tell you that it was pretty fun
1 hour ago, LeMightyASP said:To your 1st point, that's what the dedicated package is for. Do the math. It's incredibly difficult to burn down a torrent (or obi) when there's 3 dedicated ships nearby and you have up to 3 focus.
To your second point, Obi isn't that awkward. Sure, he doesn't get the focus result, but aside that he is the same, he can still carry late game with lock + force at range 1 and brilliant evasion is there to make sure he doesn't miss the focus on defense.
To your third point, dedicated heavily discourages you from breaking the chain. Besides, the reason homing missiles aren't very good is because it forces you to take an action that you can't really utilize. With synchro, you can take a focus, which means that you can spend it on defense and also allows you to spend it on your 4 dice attack if anyone takes the bait.
To your 4th point, the payoff isn't the guaranteed damage, but rather the defensive consistency you get by not having to commit resources into your attacks; Sfs are great, but you will be stuck with a lock you can't use; Sure, Obi and 3 arcs is a tested and proven archetype, but the arcs burn down fast under focus fire. As for Obi, sure, 7B is much better than what i built, but it's a lot more points invested than what I have to invest; Sinker is actually much more awkward position-wise than synchro, as synchro works range 1-3 and sinker only works range 1-2 on his side arcs; with 4 torrents and sinker rerolls, agains a 2 agility ship with focus, you're only expected to do 3.450 damage.
I have only flown this list once, and i won 200-13 against 3 a-wings + plus a heavy Corran Horn. Not much to take conclusions from, but i can tell you that it was pretty fun
If you're having fun with it, that's the point of the game. Enjoy and all the best.
I'll say one thing, though: you don't often get stuck with locks you can't use on Passive Sensors SFs. Since each ship gains it's lock before it activates, it can choose the best target as the engagement round progresses. If three SFs kill one target, when the next two activate, they can lock a different target. Locks are only ever wasted if there's nothing at all left in arc.
18 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:If you're having fun with it, that's the point of the game. Enjoy and all the best.
I'll say one thing, though: you don't often get stuck with locks you can't use on Passive Sensors SFs. Since each ship gains it's lock before it activates, it can choose the best target as the engagement round progresses. If three SFs kill one target, when the next two activate, they can lock a different target. Locks are only ever wasted if there's nothing at all left in arc.
Oh, I didn't mean the fact that the SFs can choose their lock, I was referring to how the lock goes unspent if the opponent just takes the 1 damage.
That's why I think that the list i showed is the best home for homing missiles. One single lock action enables 4 Missiles, and all ships are left with either focus or force + dedicated rerolls.
And btw, when you mention the cost of dedicated being 4 per unit, i feel like that is a good price when you compare it with elusive at 3, considering the flexibility and how fast you can recover dedicated
5 minutes ago, LeMightyASP said:And btw, when you mention the cost of dedicated being 4 per unit, i feel like that is a good price when you compare it with elusive at 3, considering the flexibility and how fast you can recover dedicated
The flippant answer is that I don't necessarily think Elusive is a good price at 3.
I think there's a few ships where it's ok (usually those who get focus-type modification on turns when they do red moves, like Kad Solus, Pattern Analyzer Muse, or Nien Nunb), and I think Dedicated probably has a place in the right lists.
The SynCon Homing Swarm is something I've been thinking about for a while, but never flying since it seems like a lot of work for modest payoff. It's cool that someone is flying it and making it work.
8 minutes ago, LeMightyASP said:Oh, I didn't mean the fact that the SFs can choose their lock, I was referring to how the lock goes unspent if the opponent just takes the 1 damage.
But unspent locks aren't useless, because TIE/sf second strike capacity is soooooooo good. Between front and rear arcs, they can set up absurd killboxes. TIE/sf seems like one of the easiest ships to get a range-1 follow-up attack, so a saved lock plus a new focus is really nice.
I'm just a massive TIE/sf stan, though, and think everything they do is beautiful.
3 hours ago, theBitterFig said:I'm just a massive TIE/sf stan, though, and think everything they do is beautiful.
I can relate to that, when passive sensors came out i thought they would break the game, and they honestly still seem unexplored. Unfortunately i only have empire and republic, so I can't really explore them
Have been flying all-Aethersprite pretty much non-stop since release, mostly Mace/Lum/Sae
Used to run trip R2, but after the R2/7B increase, I now only have 10pts to play with. Have tried basically every loadout under the sun incl. double and triple SyncCon (several games each)
For this archetype, SynCon is a decent not great, the various Astromech options just seem better in terms of cost effectiveness. R2, R4, R4-P17, R2-A6 seem clearly better, probably also R3. Even though I can fit 3x R4 and 2x SyncCon, 2x R4 + [R2/P17/A6] just feel consistently better.
Up until quite recently I had the same issue with both Synchronized Console and Battle Meditation. Once the upgrades were in the build I felt I needed to construct the list around "the gimmick", something that at best would trigger twice a game and leave me disappointed if not done perfectly. The potential in each card was there but just ... lacking. I think the trick is to use SC to support an already decent list in order to more organically take advantage of situations as they arise. The resulting squad is less vulnerable than gimmicky lists to falling apart if the linchpin piece is destroyed. I plan on giving this one a go this week so we'll see how well this cockamamie concept holds up.
Plo Koon (44)
R2-A6 (6)
Delta-7B (19)
Synchronized Console (2)
Blue Squadron Protector (28)
Dedicated (1)
Concussion Missiles (6)
Synchronized Console (2)
Blue Squadron Protector (28)
Dedicated (1)
Concussion Missiles (6)
Synchronized Console (2)
Ric Olié (42)
Daredevil (3)
Fire-Control System (2)
R2-C4 (5)
Total: 197
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I'm leaving some room till we find out what Foresight clocks in at.