Rules reference states the following.

“If there are game effects that share the same timing window as a player’s ability, the game effect is resolved first.” -Ability Queue page 3 Rules reference

“The End Phase is the fifth phase of the round. During the End Phase, all circular tokens are removed from all ships. Then, each card with a recurring charge icon recovers one charge.” -End Phase page 10 Rules reference.

So with reference to the rules reference both the clean up of circular tokens and electronic baffle have the same timing window of during the end phase, but because the clean up is a game effect, it resolves first right?

I bring this up because a lot of TOs use the unofficial X-Wing rules document as a source and it clearly argues that clean up happens after baffle.

A lot of people agree with the unofficial ruling but am I wrong for seeing the rules reference as clearly stating how it should work?

thanks!

36 minutes ago, Sir13scott said:

a lot of TOs use the unofficial X-Wing rules document as a source

They really shouldn't be. It's not officially sanctioned by FFG. A lot may agree with it, but it doesn't mean its FFG's official stance or ruling on it. They have made unofficial rulings that FFG went the opposite way on officially before so that document should always be taken with a grain of salt.

With their "ruling" they seem to be going completely against official rulings already in place. Not sure what their justification for it is. But then this is why i dont really look at that document much.

Unless someone here can justify it?

34 minutes ago, Sir13scott said:

Rules reference states the following.

“If there are game effects that share the same timing window as a player’s ability, the game effect is resolved first.” -Ability Queue page 3 Rules reference

“The End Phase is the fifth phase of the round. During the End Phase, all circular tokens are removed from all ships. Then, each card with a recurring charge icon recovers one charge.” -End Phase page 10 Rules reference.

So with reference to the rules reference both the clean up of circular tokens and electronic baffle have the same timing window of during the end phase, but because the clean up is a game effect, it resolves first right?

I bring this up because a lot of TOs use the unofficial X-Wing rules document as a source and it clearly argues that clean up happens after baffle.

A lot of people agree with the unofficial ruling but am I wrong for seeing the rules reference as clearly stating how it should work?

thanks!

The judges that set up the unofficial rulings ruled as they did to prevent end phase shenanigans against tokenless ships (baffle Quickdraw being one that was central to Ian Haim's explanation when he discussed it with the then Mynock Squadron (now Fly Better) podcast). Is their ruling inline with the rules? No, it isn't by a long shot.

21 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

The judges that set up the unofficial rulings ruled as they did to prevent end phase shenanigans against tokenless ships (baffle Quickdraw being one that was central to Ian Haim's explanation when he discussed it with the then Mynock Squadron (now Fly Better) podcast). Is their ruling inline with the rules? No, it isn't by a long shot.

To me that’s a bad precedent

1 minute ago, Sir13scott said:

To me that’s a bad precedent

To me as well.

while i understand why they've set up the rules for then end phase as they did, i don't think it's warranted just to stop quickdraw and baffle. after all, quickdraw cannot perform her bonus attack if she's already performed a bonus attack during that round. her charge would be regained before an end phase electronic baffle, which means she wouldn't have a charge during the next round, all the way up to the end phase of the next round, after which she could if she wanted to baffle again. she also wouldn't have focus to mod with or an evade to juke with if the end phase was resolved in the way the original rules tell us.

on the contrary, i think making player effects resolve before game effects during the end phase makes electronic baffle on quickdraw better, since this lets you perform av bonus attack if you haven't already that round and then immediately regain the charge for her ability. it also lets her keep any green tokens to modify her attack, with which makes it more deadly.

it's also worth noting that electronic baffle is hardly ever used on quickdraw anyway, so the whole thing is really a non-issue as far as i'm concerned. i would have preferred that the official rules were followed.

4 hours ago, meffo said:

it's also worth noting that electronic baffle is hardly ever used on quickdraw anyway, so the whole thing is really a non-issue as far as i'm concerned. i would have preferred that the official rules were followed.

I think Tavson is the more significant one since he could use Electronic Baffle to gain a green token and hold onto it for the next round. He would probably be the only ship that could actually reinforce both the front and back, since he is performing the action in different rounds, but performing the action after all green tokens would be removed.

Am I missing something here? I thought all green tokens were removed during the end phase unless specified like the Moldy Crow title.

10 minutes ago, DarthDarxide said:

Am I missing something here? I thought all green tokens were removed during the end phase unless specified like the Moldy Crow title.

yes, the timing. round tokens are removed and charges regained, as a game effect. player effects then come in, such as tavson using electronic baffle. if a player gets additional tokens that way, the timing for tokens being removed has already occurred - and so they wouldn't get removed that way.

20 minutes ago, DarthDarxide said:

Am I missing something here? I thought all green tokens were removed during the end phase unless specified like the Moldy Crow title.

Typically, yes. They are.

However Lieutenant Tavson's ability would chain off EB.

So, pair it with EB, which triggers after tokens are removed. He could use his action to gain a Re-inforce token, or a Focus token, and since token removal has already happened, he would retain it for the next round until the NEXT End phase.

1 hour ago, joeshmoe554 said:

I think Tavson  is the more significant one since he could use Electronic Baffle to gain a green token and hold onto it for the next round. He would probably be the only ship that could actually reinforce both the front and back, since he is performing the action in different rounds, but performing the action after all green tokens would be removed.

Funny enough, due to the wording, even if he had both the fore and aft reinforced, a ship in between the two sections would Still ignore it.

From pg 15

Quote

While a reinforced ship defends, if the attacker is inside the full arc specified by the reinforce token and not in the other full arc , the token provides an effect

Also Tavson could Jam a ship into the next round, and QuickDraw could baffle in the end phase to shoot a token less ship.

Wow