Hi

I'm trying to create a punisher/defender list that is defendable. My previous list included Whisper instead of Soontir Fel along with Rexler and Redline with bomblet generator.

I'm hoping this new list will allow keeping punisher out of way while launching bombs/charges. I like the sound of Soontir (will need to buy ship though) but not sure how to best leverage off other ships.

I would appreciate any feedback on list and tactics to get the most out of this list. Have I loaded up punisher too much?

TIE/in Interceptor - •Soontir Fel - 62
•Soontir Fel - Ace of Legend (52)
Predator (2)
Shield Upgrade (8)

TIE/ca Punisher - •“Deathrain” - 64
•“Deathrain” - Dexterous Bombardier (44)
Trajectory Simulator (10)
Proton Bombs (5)
Seismic Charges (3)
Skilled Bombardier (2)

TIE/D Defender - Delta Squadron Pilot - 74
Delta Squadron Pilot - (70)
Heavy Laser Cannon (4)

Total: 200/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

I'm hesitant to put Soontir and Trajectory Simulator bombs in the same list, since they tend to work at cross-purposes, but perhaps you can make it work better than I.

A thought: if you strip the HLC, Skilled Bombardier, and Shield Upgrade, you can upgrade the Delta to Rexler and carry a 2 point bid. That feels better to me... I'm not sure the Delta in your original list is doing enough for you. HLCs are hard to use under the best of circumstances, let alone on a PS1 ship, so you'd be paying a ton of points for a survivable but not hugely scary Defender. Rexler changes the dynamic a lot.

What about this

SoontirRyadDeathrain

(52) Soontir Fel [TIE Interceptor]
(2) Predator
Points: 54

(84) Countess Ryad [TIE/D Defender]
Points: 84

(44) "Deathrain" [TIE/ca Punisher]
(12) Proton Torpedoes
(5) Proton Bombs
Points: 61

Total points: 199

For these 3 ships, I'd do this.

(52) Soontir Fel [TIE Interceptor] (2) Predator. Points: 54

(82) Rexler Brath [TIE/D Defender] (5) Juke. Points: 87

(44) "Deathrain" [TIE/ca Punisher] (3) Seismic Charges (5) Proton Bombs (7) Barrage Rockets. Points: 59

Total points: 200

But it's a little awkward. You'll need to suck people into Deathrains bombs without offering him up for an early bath. You have excellent bait in Soontir and Rex though.

Not a terrible idea to drop a seismic merely to get Deathrain double mods on the Brockets. Particularly since he can reload them.

Complete lack of a bid for Soontir is also a little dangerous. As the cheapest ship in the list though, it's not going to hurt hugely if you lose him, (or spend the whole game running away), as it should aid in leveraging the bombs and help Rex power into the endgame. A plan B, if you like.

9 hours ago, Cuz05 said:

For these 3 ships, I'd do this.

(52) Soontir Fel [TIE Interceptor] (2) Predator. Points: 54

(82) Rexler Brath [TIE/D Defender] (5) Juke. Points: 87

(44) "Deathrain" [TIE/ca Punisher] (3) Seismic Charges (5) Proton Bombs (7) Barrage Rockets. Points: 59

Total points: 200

But it's a little awkward. You'll need to suck people into Deathrains bombs without offering him up for an early bath. You have excellent bait in Soontir and Rex though.

Not a terrible idea to drop a seismic merely to get Deathrain double mods on the Brockets. Particularly since he can reload them.

Complete lack of a bid for Soontir is also a little dangerous. As the cheapest ship in the list though, it's not going to hurt hugely if you lose him, (or spend the whole game running away), as it should aid in leveraging the bombs and help Rex power into the endgame. A plan B, if you like.

I'd probably start with this.

If I really wanted to launch bombs, dropping Rexler down to a no-upgrade Onyx or to a Delta with Fire Control System would be how I'd get there. Alternately, taking Duchess over Soontir as a budget option also saves about 10 points for a Trajectory Simulator.

18 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I'd probably start with this.

If I really wanted to launch bombs, dropping Rexler down to a no-upgrade Onyx or to a Delta with Fire Control System would be how I'd get there. Alternately, taking Duchess over Soontir as a budget option also saves about 10 points for a Trajectory Simulator.

I'd sooner go the Duchess route myself... well, probably Sabacc tbh... but still.

I've not fared well with lower Init Defenders without specifically building for their needs. Found it quite a struggle to do enough damage for the points and they don't fortress those points particularly well either. Their arcs are fairly easy to dodge, whilst being a little poor at doing it themselves. A single one as a fat filler seems a thing you need a lot of experience with to make work. Could just be me being spoilt by too much Rex and Ryad

2 with support is much better than 1 with nowt.

I'm not sure it's worth making room for Traj Sim in this list though. DR is one of the few pilots than can come close to getting value out of that enormous 10pt, but I feel he has to be jousting with it or it's largely wasted. Aces will dodge it and melt him. Jousty lists will eat it and melt him. Points are going to be lost fast this way, I reckon. He doesn't have a lot of help on the approach with the other 2.

There is the area denial effect of it, but that can be quite negligible against a lot of things. Basically, only droid/TIE swarms will actually fear it, and even then, not for long.

However, if they reduce the points on it....

2 hours ago, Cuz05 said:

I'm not sure it's worth making room for Traj Sim in this list though. DR is one of the few pilots than can come close to getting value out of that enormous 10pt, but I feel he has to be jousting with it or it's largely wasted. Aces will dodge it and melt him. Jousty lists will eat it and melt him. Points are going to be lost fast this way, I reckon. He doesn't have a lot of help on the approach with the other 2.

There is the area denial effect of it, but that can be quite negligible against a lot of things. Basically, only droid/TIE swarms will actually fear it, and even then, not for long.

However, if they reduce the points on it....

Totally fair. But sometimes you just want to throw bombs into people's faces.

I know SOTL has been gone for a while, but I recall him suggesting that, while a Jousty list can eat one bomb, eating two tends to be another thing altogether, and having two bomb lobsters* bomb lobbing might be the better way to go, which might mean a radically different list might be better.

Also, I'd totally be cool with a small TrajSim buff. A lot of the old nerfs in the first wave back in January seem like they went a bit too far. TrajSim and Scum Han Gunner and a bunch of other stuff were too cheap and needed nerfs. But many probably got a bit over-nerfed. 6-7 for TrajSim seems fair to me.

2 hours ago, Cuz05 said:

I'd sooner go the Duchess route myself... well, probably Sabacc tbh... but still.

I've not fared well with lower Init Defenders without specifically building for their needs. Found it quite a struggle to do enough damage for the points and they don't fortress those points particularly well either. Their arcs are fairly easy to dodge, whilst being a little poor at doing it themselves. A single one as a fat filler seems a thing you need a lot of experience with to make work. Could just be me being spoilt by too much Rex and Ryad

2 with support is much better than 1 with nowt.

I haven't flown too many defenders lately, a consequence of flying a lot of Deltas back in early 1e. Loved them, did pretty well for a while. Support certainly makes them sing, particularly other same-init support. But I didn't hate just tossing one in with Whisper and Vynder. I feel like either they get ignored, and the high time-on-target starts adding up, or they can tank enough damage to help the rest of the squad do their job. Eh, that's perhaps an optimistic look at it.

It also strikes me that an all init-4 Punisher/Striker/Defender list might fit together nicely. Pure Sabaac or Countdown, Countess Ryad or Onyx, Deathrain. Season to taste.

* I guarantee that whatever a person's opinion of Rock Lobster is, it's a far better song than they remember. 1978! Way ahead of it's time.

16 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Totally fair. But sometimes you just want to throw bombs into people's faces.

Want to love all of it, but this especially!

And when Traj Sim does come down again*, I'll be bomb lobstering with that as the theme tune

*(Gonna bet a very conservative 8. Won't somebody think of the poor droids!)

Redline Forever!

(65) Darth Vader [TIE Advanced x1]
Points: 65

(52) Soontir Fel [TIE Interceptor]
(2) Predator
Points: 54

(52) "Redline" [TIE/ca Punisher]
(12) Proton Torpedoes
(10) Advanced Sensors
Points: 74

Total points: 193

Try jousting with Vader right next to Redline. Redline works like a pseudo Biggs and Vader won’t be shot. Which is ideal for your endgame. Also don’t be shy with Soontir. All 3 guns need to be on target so you win the PS kill race.

FCS optional on Vader if you don’t want as big of a bid.

Deathrain with Seismics, ProBos, TS, and Brockets, and Rex with Juke, leaves room for the lovely pocket ace of Duchess with Predator, who can flank while the other two joust

I’ve had decent success with this

(65) Darth Vader [TIE Advanced x1]
(6) Afterburners
Points: 71

(52) "Redline" [TIE/ca Punisher]
(10) Advanced Sensors
(12) Proton Torpedoes
Points: 74

(39) Major Vynder [Alpha-class Star Wing]
(3) Advanced SLAM
(0) Os-1 Arsenal Loadout
(6) Adv. Proton Torpedoes
(5) Cluster Missiles
Points: 53

Total points: 198

advanced sensors focus, acquire a lock, 4K Protorps with Redline

Slamorama with Vynder into range 1 AdvProTorps. Then Jet and reload with Redline & Vynder