AnglePark said:

LOL!!!!!

That was a good one, I nearly spit my beer on the monitor!

Kingtiger said:

Well, they don't have to tell us the previews have been delayed.

We already know they've been delayed, because we haven't seen any.

Bazookajoe said:

Right on brother.

I'll second that, can I get a third?

kaufschtick said:

Of course they don't but what's wrong with a bit of communication with the customer?

Kingtiger said:

There you go resorting to asking for common sense and courtesy from... a company.

You're just bound and determined to try and turn this into a serious thread, aren't you!

That's not very sporting of you.

Well i have no doubts that the expansion is still going to come out, its just a matter of when. And if they are having quality issues i would rather wait and have them fixed than have a low quality product. Think Starcraft 2, it got pushed back several years. It will be released when its ready. But i do hope they update us with the status soon here.

I am with you on that kaufschtick...especially given the price I am going to have to pay for it here in Australia. With some of the retail prices you see here you would think that you were purchasing a "special edition" with gold plated components or something. For example I have seen Runewars ticketed for $199 AUS!! in one store.

If they need more time for quality control issues then they can have it as far as I am concerned.

nath: said:

Right on, and in the meantime, we can have our fun here and poke a little fun at them in the process...

hm uh, over 100 days ago fotb was announced but just no single preview yet. i don`t know what to think about this kind of marketing. it`s a shame because toi is such a great system but the support for this game is just...uh... different.

in mid april i expected fotb to be available at the end of july, right now i would be happy if a single preview is published before that time. oh dear, hard times for a wargamer

Yeah, and it's almost college football season too! I was just screwing around when I put that in the opening post! Hard times for wargamers was when the lights went out at Avalon Hill. Those were dark times.

After that, I'm just glad to even have a game like ToI. It was a year before they even announced the existence of FotB, so this wait is kinda par for the course.

I think it would be really a hoot if the game didn't come out until the weeks before Thanksgiving or Christmas, as I was poking fun at in the opening post! Anyone wanna start a poll as to A), when the first preview comes out, and B) when the game hits the shelves?!

I'm gonna go with my opening post times. The first preview will come out at the start of the college football season, and the game will hit the shelves in the weeks just before Thanksgiving!

Who do I give my $5.00 to?

For the poll.

Who's gonna hold the money?

It doesn't help that I have been AARP eligible for 7 ½ months now. I don't have THAT much time left.

blumax1981 said:

LOL!

That was pretty funny!

Well, the Buckeyes play their first game in about three and a half weeks...

so, umm... yeah, no news still, other than quality issues.

Awesome!

Not!

I'll be happy if it makes it by the end of the year, with the quality issues fixed.

A few months to correct quality issues is fine by me. Get it right the first time around.

kaufschtick said:

I agree. I like well-finished products.

Alas, when FOTB ships we will be missing out on KlausFritsch's humor, that will be sad times.

But selling games has nothing to do with the quality of the game. Hype it, hype it and hype it some more. Silence about their product, does not sell the game...

The brick and mortar store where I hang out has a group of players dedicated to FFG. It would be nice to see some adverting. There could even be perks for those of us who use our own copies to demo FFG. Advertising may help spread the word. Hype would help. Thank you Grand Stone, good insight.

Anyone wanna start a poll on when the next preview will be?

I started this thread on 04 May, of this year. In two weeks it will have been 5 months since they announced "check back in the coming weeks for previews", and there has been exactly one preview.

I mean, I like FFG, and I respect their not wanting to rush things, but I have to say in all seriousness, that I would give them a "Fail" in the customer relations department regarding upcoming products.

I read a thread on BGG where there was a fellow who was really upset over having placed a pre-order for FotB, and then having been left high and dry to twist in the wind regarding the status of the product he placed an order from (and apparently had been billed for). Some wise-cracker decided to chime in and throw at this guy that it was his fault for having placed a pre-order in the first place, what a knuckle-head!

Yeah, that's the kind of reputation you want to have as a company. "Whatever you do, DON"T place pre-orders with us! And if you do, IT"S YOUR OWN FAULT." I don't think that's the kind of reputation any company would want.

I thought the guy with the pre order had a legitimate beef, and every right to be ticked off. It would take almost no time at all to post an update along the lines of "This item is currently delayed". Not just for FFG customers, but how about all the outfits that sell FFG products, and have taken pre orders for this? I've gotta believe anyone offering FotB as a pre order is getting beat to death by people wanting to know "where's the product I paid for" or "my funds are tied up in a holding account for this."

I mean, there was no problem at in posting an article proclaiming that the Wings of War Series IV planes are now "On the shelf".

In my eyes, while I agree that I'd rather have it late and right; than early or on time and screwed up; it creates a bad opinion in my mind of how FFG has handled this, and a negetive opinion for me of FFG.

As far as I'm concerned, it says that FFG doesn't care enough to post even the tiniest bit of information for me, a customer.

So, when I , as a customer, feel that a particular company I'd like to spend my money with and do business with, doesn't care; then I go looking at their competition to see if I can spend my hard earned dollars with them (and get better service). I have just so many dollars I'm willing to spend on this type of stuff (wargames), and believe it or not, there are a fair amount of other companies (Days of Wonder to name just one) who offer similar products (Conflict of Heros to name just one).

I know times are tough for businesses as well as everyone else; and that they are working hard at FFG. However, it would be immensely in their interest to communicate with their customers. Ignore your customers long enough, and they'll go away. Especially those customers who are waiting patiently to spend their money with them, and who keep looking at the latest item available from Academy Games, Conflict of Heros: Storms of Steel. An item readily available I might add...

I couldn't agree with you more, kaufschtick. It doesn't take much to update the community, and most specifically for those who have already pledged their funds.

And I'm already way ahead of you on your last suggestion...

I like TOI a lot, but I got tired of waiting... again... so I spent my hard-earned dollars elsewhere. Believe me, I also had a hard time resisting for so long, and you wouldn't regret it one bit. While TOI is a very nice game, I still prefer the CSR-style hex and counter games. I'm glad I made the move.

Well, I kinda ranted a bit last night.

Sorry.

Just frustrated at the incredibly long period of time on "starvation rations" here at FFG.

I'm sure FotB will be along just as soon as they're ready with with it.

Which should be any decade now.

Well, considering this is still at the printer, and taking time on the boat into account, this puppy may not be available by Christmas.

Any predictions of having this by the start of baseball season, kaufschtick?

Crikey!

AnglePark said:

LOL! Crikey indeed!

Ah, let's see here...they still have three whole months left in this year.

I think the bigger question will be whether or not the next expansion planned after this one, The Pacific one, will beat the Russian expansion onto store shelves!

Funny thing, I was reading back through the opening pages of the ToI rulebook the other night, and in the intro to ToI, they state that they "hope" to release further expansions for ToI, including adding: the British (done), the Russians (trying to get done), and the Japanese (I hope, I hope gets done).

I wonder which one will hit the shelves first, FotB, or the re-release of BattleCry?

kaufschtick said:

I believe Battle Cry will beat it. I'm not sure how long a game is usually on the boat, but it seems to be a month or more. Isn't BC supposed to be out in November? if that's the case, FotB would have to ship next week to have a chance of hitting the shelves first.

Unfortunately, I'm sticking to a prediction I made elsewhere, many moons ago: I believe FotB will be the last TOI expansion.

I hope I'm wrong, but you know "we old Grogs" can usually see the writing on the wall. The support for this game has almost dried up entirely.

At a minimum, FFG could be making a quick buck on historical scenario packs with a double-sided paper map in an envelope... just like those other guys.

AnglePark said:

I hope you're not right, but the lack of support speaks volumes. It's hard to argue against it.

One glimmer of hope though would be the Russian Front. I would argue that the Russian Front would be the most popular theater for ground combat in WWII, as far as wargamers are considered. From a business point of view, that could translate into sales. And I'm not trying to trivialize or reduce the bigger picture here by talking along business lines here. By "popular" for wargamers, what I mean is an area of possibly the largest interest. War is never popular.

And by talking about a "business" point of view, I'm simply stating the fact that this fantastic game, and all the others out there both past and present, well, they are all connected by a common thread, that being that all are made possible by a company creating and producing them. So, obviously, war is not a subject to be reduced to sales figures and such, but unfortunately, these portals of discovery and exploration for many of us (games), are sadly reliant on the business world if they are to exist at all. The sales have to be there if ToI is to have any hope of continuing further expansions.

That being said, if FotB should happen to be the last expansion, I'd feel pretty good with what made it out to us.