kaufschtick said:

I'm actually going to wait a bit, and (possibly) purchase it well after it hits the shelves. This will be the first TOI module I'm not buying right out of the gate, because I want to see what others have to say about it first. And I want to see how FFG supports the game after its release.

With the extreme lack of information after it was announced, extended delay in production, and continued silence after it was put on the boat, I'm not sure I want to put my hard-earned dollars into the expansion just yet.

TOI will have to earn my support this time around.

Well...

I guess I'm kinda leaning the other way on this one. I mean, not necessarily the pre order thing, but on getting the game. I'm definately going to get it, but I'm thinking about getting two copies of this one.

Wow, I just realized this thread has gone over 200 replies (most of them by me, no doubt ). Not too many threads on this forum over 25, let alone a 200 reply thread.

kaufschtick said:

ahm dude, this is a 25-thread... since app. 175 plus x posts in this thread posted by you...hahahaha

Well 2 sets would give 28 T-34's almost enough to form 3 of their battalions you would need 2 more as it was 10 per battalion

BJaffe01

BJaffe01 said:

*sigh*

Oh great, you're saying I'm going to need THREE copies of this?

Alright, I'll go ask my wife...

(heads off to kitchen for a beer first, mumbling to self: "OK, 10 tanks per battalion...3 copies gives me what, 42 T-34s then...that's 4 battalions...I'm gonna need another copy of the base game too"...Wife yells down: "You're mumbling again...if it's about multiple copies of a wargame, the answer is no, the kids need shoes" )

Dont worry about the missing two tanks - More than two tanks were always down with either damage or mechanical failure. ;-)

kaufschtick said:

I am getting at least two copies, if only to get more variations out of the winter boards.

BJaffe01 said:

I would have to count my Falmes of War am Axis & Allies T34s... but I imagine I could be cose to that number already...

Holy Crap!!! It's shipping!!!

Generally when it goes to shipping status, I have a copy in my hands by the end of the week!!!

KlausFritsch said:

Hoping to get those additional winter boards through a future map expansion. I'd also like to have more miniatures, but what worries me in the storage space an additional copy of the game would occupy and many other components I WOULDN't be interested in (additional decks of cards, certain types of counters etc.).

AnglePark said:

Though I certainly agree they could and should have been a bit more forthcoming with additional information, it certainly looks like a lot of effort has gone into this product based on seeing the rules, new tokens, miniatures, boards etc.. Also, compared to WoTC's AAM their actually doing a great job supporting the game...(Don't get me started on the lack of support and many other things regarding the latter...)

Kinda funny, it is finally released and I could care less. I waited so long that I am playing good stuff from other companies and will be waiting a few months before I pick it up, if I pick it up at all. Was it worth the wait? It was great message boarding with you Kaufschtick.

blumax1981 said:

Great chatting with you too.

I went straight out tonight and picked it up. They put it in a bigger box, but it all would have fit in the regular expansion size boxes.

Lots of T-34s, plenty of troops, more Panthers (I now have 16 Panthers), great map boards (3 of them are winter on both sides) and 8 scenarios.

Yeah, it was a long wait, but I'd have to say it was worth it, for me anyway. I like ToI, and now I can play it in three different map settings and three different theaters.

Can you give me the stats for the russian vehicles? Please, preaty please?

Kaufschtick, do you have ties to Tiffin Ohio?

kaufschtick said:

Huh? Doesn't that mean that the largest scale winter battle we can have so far is no more than 3 boards max, as you cannot use both sides at the same time???

Kingtiger: I think you missunderstant. There are 9 boards, 6 of them are winter on one side and summer on the other, while 3 of them are winter on both sides. Makes perfectly sence.

Grand Stone said:

That indeed does make a lot more sense. Should have read the original message with the stress on the word BOTH. OK, thanks for the clarification! Found it hard to believe, the initial interpretation...

Just a disclaimer, I dont have the game yet, but I assume that is how it is.

Sorry for the confusion fella's!

Yeah, that one post is right, 9 map boards, 6 of them are winter on one side and summer on the other. 3 of the map boards are winter on both sides.

Vehicles stats? Sure, I can do that on here, I hope. Well, here they are:

T-34/76: Range 5/6 (Inf / armor), Firepower 6/8, Armor 5, MV 7, Concussive & Overrun

KV-1: Range 5/6, Firepower 6/8, Armor 6, MV 4, Concussive & Overrun

SU-122: Range 10/6, Firepower 10/8, Armor 5, MV 7, Concussive & Overrun

Zis-3 76.2mm AT Gun: Range 5/8, Firepower 4/8, Armor 2, Concussive & Fragile

PaK 40 75mm AT Gun: Range 5/8, Firepower 4/10, Armor 2, Concussive & Fragile

BlueMax1981: My Dad's side of the family is huge, but I'm not aware of any ties to Tiffin, OH.

The russian vehicles are very interesting.

I would say that the standar panzer IV is better than the T34/76, atleast at long ranges and clear view of sight. But with +1 speed and +1 armor, the T34 has it perks. But panzer IV varriant with firepower 6 would have big problems versus this tank. It would likewise have problems versus the KV-1. However, the KV-1 is a fun unit, as its speed is increddible slow. Crawl speed. I like units with weaknesses. It makes things interesting.

But SU-122 seems increddible. Does it actually have firepower 10 and range 10 versus infanteri AND concussive firepower? Speed 7, armor 5. With improved anti-infanteri stats, this is a tanks which I do want to eliminate if I play the germans. Move and fire with speed 5 and firepower 5 versus infanteri. Not bad.

Grand Stone said:

Good analysis!

I agree that the SU-122 seems very strong as opposed to many other units. While the anti-infantry stats are probably fairly accurate compared to the other tanks, the strange thing is that so far all tanks have had anti0infantry firepower of 6. This certainly is a break with tradition. It's then fair to say that perhaps a Sherman should have higher anti-infantry stats as well than say the M10, which it doesn't...

So to sum up: I like the SU122. It's a nice addition to the game and provides for new tactical abilities and decisions (indeed a high priority target for the Germans!) while at the same time it begs the question: why have all vehicles had the same anti-infantry stats up to now whereas in certain cases there have also been clear differences in anti-infantry effectiveness on the battlefield.

Maybe the Germans will get a Brummbär (miniature) once with similar anti infantry firepower (range should be shorter, though and speed considerably lower).

Well the SU-122 is carrying a howitzer not an at gun and they didn't convert them over until 1944. so it should be able to kill infantry easily. and yes the Germans really want to kill them.

the T-34 was a huge problem for the early mark iv's it wasn't until 1943 when they put the 75L42 and 75L48 on them that they could actually kill T-34's hence the Marder conversions with russian 76's on them that started appearing in 1942.

BJaffe01

BJaffe01 said:

Now that we have that, bring on the Sturmpanzer IV (Brummbär) with its 150mm gun.

KlausFritsch said:

I'd love to see an "Armor Expansion" for the game. I love the variety of tanks the Germans have available in the game right now, but I actually think the Brits could use a Cromwell & a Churchill. I also think the Stuart would be a good addition, in both US colored plastic and British colored plastic. I'd also like to see a Sherman in British colored plastic. Maybe a Firefly an a Sherman E8 too?

The Brummbar would be cool too.

I'm not saying we need every kind of AFV, but just a few more would really add a nice touch to the game.