R4-P17 & Full Throttle

By j_man_04, in X-Wing Rules Questions

R4-P17 says:
After you fully execute a red maneuver, you may spend 1 [charge] to perform an action, even while stressed.

Full Throttle on the Naboo Starfighter says:
After you fully execute a speed 3-5 maneuver, you may perform an [evade] action.

Both of these are happening in the same timing window, so my assumption is I can use R4-P17 to gain an evade after a 3 Talon-Roll, correct? R4 isn't restricting you to your action bar, so this seems doable.

Edited by kempokid

Any ability which grants you the ability to "perform an action" and doesn't specify a particular action does limit you to your action bar and actions on upgrades and damage cards. It's pretty much the same as if someone had done a coordinate action to you. An N-1 with R4-P17 would be able to Focus, Lock, Boost, or Barrel Roll. but not Evade.

Edited by theBitterFig

No. Full throttle and P17 are different effects and must be execut3d subsequently from one another, not simultaneously.

2 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

No. Full throttle and P17 are different effects and must be execut3d subsequently from one another, not simultaneously.

Based on your response and @theBitterFig ‘s I will accept that it can’t happen. But I still can’t wrap my head around how it’s not simultaneous when the timing window referenced is the same. It’s semantics I guess.

11 hours ago, kempokid said:

Based on your response and @theBitterFig ‘s I will accept that it can’t happen. But I still can’t wrap my head around how it’s not simultaneous when the timing window referenced is the same. It’s semantics I guess.

I can see why you came to that conclusion, because of the way the two abilities are written. But the important thing here is the ability queue. The ability queue means that abilities don't resolve simultaneously, even if they were triggered simultaneously. R4-P17's ability doesn't affect other abilities; it allows you to perform any action of your choice, even while stressed, provided that said action is 1) on your action bar (or otherwise is an action you can perform any time you're given an opportunity to perform an action), and 2) an action you haven't already performed this round. This doesn't give you access to your Full Throttle evade action, because that ability is entered into the queue automatically, and resolved separately from R4-P17.

Edited by Maui.
11 hours ago, kempokid said:

Based on your response and @theBitterFig ‘s I will accept that it can’t happen. But I still can’t wrap my head around how it’s not simultaneous when the timing window referenced is the same. It’s semantics I guess.

The timing window is simultaneous. It's also irrelevant. (*edit* rather, the trigger is simultaneous. The abilities resolve sequentially, but this too is irrelevant.) Having the same timing doesn't change the fact that R4-P17 doesn't let you take an Evade.

Only an effect which explicitly gives you a particular action (Evade with Full Throttle, Boost with Afterburners) lets you do an action which isn't on your action bar. R4-P17 is not one of those few effects which grants a specific named action, rather than an action on your bar. You get the chance to do any action you could normally take. An N-1 cannot normally take an Evade action. It can *only* take an Evade when Full Throttle triggers, thus only on a speed 3-5 move when you aren't stressed. It's pretty similar to how a TIE/x1 cannot normally take a Boost action, but Afterburners allows it to boost under certain conditions.

Edited by theBitterFig
2 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

The timing window is simultaneous. It's also irrelevant. Having the same timing doesn't change the fact that R4-P17 doesn't let you take an Evade.

Only an effect which explicitly gives you a particular action (Evade with Full Throttle, Boost with Afterburners) lets you do an action which isn't on your action bar. R4-P17 is not one of those few effects which grants a specific named action, rather than an action on your bar. You get the chance to do any action you could normally take. An N-1 cannot normally take an Evade action. It can *only* take an Evade when Full Throttle triggers, thus only on a speed 3-5 move when you aren't stressed. It's pretty similar to how a TIE/x1 cannot normally take a Boost action, but Afterburners allows it to boost under certain conditions.

It's also why Supernatural Reflexes Darth Vader with Afterburners takes damage after performing a pre-maneuver boost: While there is a way his ship can perform boost actions (via Afterburners), the boost action isn't on his action bar, so to quite Captain Tarpals...

giphy.gif

7 hours ago, kempokid said:

Based on your response and @theBitterFig ‘s I will accept that it can’t happen. But I still can’t wrap my head around how it’s not simultaneous when the timing window referenced is the same. It’s semantics I guess.

It is simultaneous. The error is:

10 hours ago, kempokid said:

R4 isn't restricting you to your action bar

This is true, so if you have an [ACTION] button on an upgrade card, you can 'push' that instead of a button on your action bar.

BUT, full throttle isn't a 'button' you can select. You only get the evade action via that specific mechanic; performing a speed 3 manoeuvre (and not being stressed).

You don't get to 'invest' a free action from anywhere else (i.e. R4-P17) in performing an evade.

Very little is simultaneous in x wing. Things can share a timing trigger but they are always resolved sequentially.

15 hours ago, kempokid said:

Based on your response and @theBitterFig ‘s I will accept that it can’t happen. But I still can’t wrap my head around how it’s not simultaneous when the timing window referenced is the same. It’s semantics I guess.

How about i just quote the relevant Rules Reference from pg 3

Quote

When a ship is instructed to perform an action, the ship can perform a standard action , which includes actions listed in that ship’s action bar, as well as abilities that have the “ Action :” header on that ship’s condition, damage, ship, or upgrade cards.

R4-P17 is effectively 'instructing you' to perform an action. And since Full throttle isn't a standard action, or ability with the "Action:" header, it cannot be used in conjunction with the droid.