I prefer being second player but I'm finding that I just can't get Raiders to work.

As a bit of background I only own Imperials but I have the lot, including 2 Raiders and all the upgrade cards. I own a fair number of upgrade cards that come with rebel ships but the three I'm missing that I'd really like are Projection Experts, Spinal Armaments and Heavy Ion Emplacements.

I'm an ok player, I lose more than I win though as I play various other games whereas my opponents tend to focus on Armada more, regularly going to tournaments. The best way to get good at something is to do it a lot so I'll probably never be as good as them, I do get the occasional win though and rarely get smashed out of sight.

Raiders though I just can't make work. I cruise round the rebels flank (I'm not a huge fan of Imperial Vs Imperial games, Armada seems to work so much better if it's Imperials versus Rebels) and get lined up for a close range shot with black dice. Next turn, as my friend is first player his opening move is to wipe my little Raider from the face of the galaxy before it gets a chance to fire.

Of course the answer is for me to be first player, shoot him then get away. But what if I'm not? Are there any upgrades or strategies I should be using to at least stop the Raiders being easy points for a rebel who is first player?

So if your 2nd player you need to at least have last activation. If you do what you can do Is park your raiders i n front of the Rebels at medium/long range depending on their speed. Then you delay activations until the ship you want to shoot is forced to move closer to your raider (which should still be safe at long range thanks to evades) then blast it and jump away.

Now if you don't have first or last activation (or perferibly both) its going to be almost impossible to get effective damage done from your raiders.

A local player in my area has had some success utilizing them as long range snipers (at lease for one shot). Typical load out would be something along these lines:

Raider II-Class Corvette (48 points)
- Veteran Gunners ( 5 points)
- Disposable Capacitors ( 3 points)
- Heavy Ion Emplacements ( 9 points)
= 65 total ship cost

You could also switch out vet gunners for gunnery team to get 2 shots off, but you would need to be confident in your blue dice to get that HIE crit.

Everything clontroper said however raider II with decaps and HIE really dont care about first or second and if you dont want to take screed or Vader Veteran Gunners is always an option.

Man HIE raiders are so expensive...

Here are ships in the same price point has an HIE raider.

Name: Ship comparison
Faction: Imperial
Commander:

Assault:
Defense:
Navigation:

Raider II (48)
• Veteran Gunners (5)
• Disposable Capacitors (3)
• Heavy Ion Emplacements (9)
= 65 Points

Gladiator I (56)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)
= 65 Points

Quasar Fire I (54)
• Hondo Ohnaka (2)
• Flight Controllers (6)
• Squall (3)
= 65 Points

Arquitens Light Cruiser (54)
• Reinforced Blast Doors (5)
• Dual Turbolaser Turrets (5)
= 64 Points

The other option - as with everything - is to make sure there's something more important for them to worry about.

It takes 6 damage to kill a Raider (or 11 if you don't get the accuracy). That's 6-11 damage not going into something else. Make sure there is something else, much bigger and nastier in that arc that they want to shoot at. Or set up a fork; make sure there is another enemy ship that wants to activate first. Maybe the Raider will still die, but you're giving your opponent a tough choice, and hopefully making the most out of which ever option they choose.

On 6/16/2019 at 8:56 AM, Bolshevik6 said:

I prefer being second player but I'm finding that I just can't get Raiders to work.

As a bit of background I only own Imperials but I have the lot, including 2 Raiders and all the upgrade cards. I own a fair number of upgrade cards that come with rebel ships but the three I'm missing that I'd really like are Projection Experts, Spinal Armaments and Heavy Ion Emplacements.

I'm an ok player, I lose more than I win though as I play various other games whereas my opponents tend to focus on Armada more, regularly going to tournaments. The best way to get good at something is to do it a lot so I'll probably never be as good a  s them,  I do get the occasional win though and rar  ely get smashed out of sight.

Raiders though I just can't make work. I cruise round the rebels flank (I'm not a huge fan of Imperial Vs Imperial games, Armada seems to work so much better if it's Imperials versus Rebels) and get lined up for a close range shot with black dice. Next turn, as my friend is first player his opening move is to wipe my little Raider from the face of the galaxy before it gets a chance to fire.

Of course the answ  er is for me to be first  pl  ayer, shoot him then get away. But what if I'm not? Are there any upgrades or strategies I should be using to at least sto  p  the Raiders being easy points for a rebel who is first player?

http://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/2017/03/imperial-ship-review-raider-corvette.html

You need at least as many, and preferably more activations than first player to set a Raider up to "catch" ships that need to activate and get closer to them. It takes a lot of practice and it's still a bit risky in the current "big ships throwing tons of dice and commanding a pile of aces" meta, but that's how you do it as player 2. Raider-IIs with D Caps and HIEs are also pretty handy too if you're okay giving up on the burst damage of Raider-Is.

Excellent feedback, thanks for the input. Lots to think about there. Sadly I don't possess Heavy Ion Emplacements and that may handicap me a little.

That said, the key seems to be the number and timing of activations. Going first and/or last seems to be essential, possibly even more so than upgrades.

Have an even number of important activations for your opponent.

For instance, you've set up your raider up against a CR90 on the flank with a double arc, but in the middle of the board your Demolisher is lined up for the kill on your opponent's Pelta. They have to choose. One of their ships goes down, but neither of your ships is in danger.

As second player, there are 2 methods for raiders: even number of activations while avoiding your opponents critical arcs, thus forcing difficult decisions (but not deadly for you) on your opponent, or the wait-out approach described above, where you situate yourself distance 3-5 away from a ship, allow them to get a shot off, hoping your evades and brace are enough, and then activating after they hopefully land at close range of you, but for me that's a lot of hope, which is not for empires. Both take a good amount of practice.

It's true that raiders need either first activation or more activations, ideally both.

The alternative thing I've seen as second player raider is using them more as blockers. Park them in front of a MC80H1 and watch the panic ensue. Basically, decide which ship is their "big hit" ship, and try to get directly in front of that thing on turn 3, or whatever ends up being you "clash" turn. They will want to activate it first, but your raider will be right there to bump it back. Flotillas will do the same thing, but they are harder to position with lower speed and flexibility. A speed 4 Jerjerrod naving Raider is a blocking nightmare for your opponent.

18 hours ago, Bolshevik6 said:

Excellent feedback, thanks for the input. Lots to think about there. Sadly I don't possess Heavy Ion Emplacements and that may handicap me a little.

That said, the key seems to be the number and timing of activations. Going first and/or last seems to be essential, possibly even more so than upgrades.

Not necessarily. You have to find a role for the ship which it can serve better than any other. I made a list with a Vader-Cymoon and first tried to fit in two Arquitens (next to a Comms-Net-Gozanti). But then I found that they didn't synergize as I wished. My problem was, that the ISD was weak in his side arcs and I had not much of a squadron force to protect it against brawlers like Kuat, Gladiator, MC75, or MC30c. So I changed to two Raider II. They were able to protect my ISD flank if anything jumped out of my front arc and they could help my squadrons with two black dice winning the upper hand. They fitted perfectly and helped me to win a Store Championship. Fleet Command and Vader helped my Raiders to stay cheap and unpredictable for my opponents.

If you select Raider I’s then try using Ozzel as your Admiral until you get the hang of getting them in the right place/distance from your opponents ship to use your blue/black dice. Either have a nav token on board or nav command to use his speed shenanigans to get you in the right spot for an ambush. Once you’re comfortable with this then try out Screed/Vader/Admiral of choice. Or just stick with Ozzel 😉

I like using multiple Raiders (combined with Gladiators) as second player to force my opponent to make difficult choices, particularly in a single round. An excellent example of this occurred a few weeks ago. At the start of Round 3, I had my Darth Vader Boarding Team Raider in front of my opponent's Liberty (never a good spot), two Raiders both double arcing the sides of a Nebulon-B, Insidious parked behind his Assault Frigate, and Demolisher waiting for his move before activating. With any choice, he was either going to lose a key ship or title that was worth more than what I was giving up. If he killed the DV BT Raider, I was going to destroy his AF or Neb-B. If he activated the AF or Neb-B first, he was not going to be able to destroy one of my ships, but I was also going to strip Mon Karren off his Liberty and successfully get away from it. Either way, it presented him with a few bad options. In the end, he activated the Liberty, destroyed the DV BT Raider, then I destroyed the AF. Not a good trade for him.

Since you don't have HIE, you could try an alternative upgrade. For example, SW-7 just gives a straight-up damage dealer (you're adding .25 per die). That's not as good as getting HIE off, but you also paid less for it and don't have to exhaust it. Ion Cannon Batteries is an old-standby, and in a meta where people bank and depend upon tokens to augment their combat options, taking away a critical token can be very good. And if you aren't running a crit effect, it makes it easier to just drop the ordinance upgrade to make a cheap damage dealer.

They seem to do well as a trailer/sweeper, allowing your bigger ships to lead and draw fire before using their maneuverability to swing in and finish something off.

23 hours ago, Vergilius said:

Ion Cannon Batteries is an old-standby, and in a meta where people bank and depend upon tokens to augment their combat options, taking away a critical token can be very good.

I'll Second ICB as a good fallback choice, especially with a commander like Screed who can trigger it twice reliably (out the side and the front). With fleet commands in the meta, its quite strong, and if your opponent has no tokens you can deal two shield damage to the same hull zone.

3 hours ago, Do I need a Username said:

I'll Second ICB as a good fallback choice, especially with a commander like Screed who can trigger it twice reliably (out the side and the front). With fleet commands in the meta, its quite strong, and if your opponent has no tokens you can deal two shield damage to the same hull zone.

Screed can only trigger once per activation.

2 hours ago, xanderf said:

Screed can only trigger once per activation.

front is semi relible, especially with veteran gunners. Screed is for the side.