Which ships would benefit the most from passive sensors?

Baby Punishers!

Baby X1s!

Vader

WHISPER!!!

B-Wings, Punishers, TIE SFs, N-1s and Hyenas with I4 or less with ordnance, 4-LOM, or X-1s besides Vader and probably Maarek. Very big maybe on Star Vipers and Targeting Computer Phantoms. Might also work on a VCX with Force or Saw to mod focuses, using its action on Passive Sensor TLs to get full mods. Perhaps it'll make Hatin' Kanan stronger?

Phantoms, especially Whisper and Echo. U-wings maybe as well.

I'm guessing Starwings will like them.

On 6/16/2019 at 1:43 PM, Blademaster72 said:

Vader

????

Is that a TIE/sf?

Hmm....first order....

'yenas

The ship probably won't work at all without them and/or 32c (don't think they'd just straight replace Vultures as charge carriers)

Passive sensors with kraken allow you to crank out some terrifying alpha strikes

Only the unique 'yenas probably don't need it, as bombards can't take ordnance (according to article), 32c is 32cing, and 404 is at a fairly healthy I 4 (and might want FCS due to ability)

Prototypes are pretty redundant with passive. Honestly, I'd take technos with passives over prototypes because they'll have targetlocks to reroll with

'yenas are probably looking at a Kraken 32-c, an fcs (+a missile) 404, and then technos/Seperatists with passive sensor ordnance. If you're not taking 404 you're probably not taking 32c because you can't coordinate through passive sensors; probably have a kraken autopilot instead

I'd be aiming for:

Autopilot w/kraken

3 passive sensor torp generics

A vulture?

or

32c w/kraken

404 w/fcs + one ordnance (plasma?)

Two passive, proton generics

A vulture?

Also, low initiative n1s with r2-c4 make mean sensor ships

You know, if they're 3 points or fewer, you can mod a current list: 2 Cutlasses with ProTorps, Soontir, and Duchess all fit...

11 hours ago, Roller of blanks said:

????

With passive sensors on Vader you need no bid, he locks at start of combat have full knowledge of board can then spend force to focus and barrel roll out of ark.

@Roller of blanks if you face other lists that have bid and I6 ship or ships you have start of combat barrel roll.

Generic TIE/sf could do some solid work. A cheap Zeta Squadron /sf with Passive Sensors and a Targeting Synchroniser is a nice lynchpin for a missile volley.

It depends on the cost of buying the Passive Sensors relative to taking a higher-initiative pilot (currently +4 points for an Omega Squadron Expert, 7 for Backdraft and 11 for Quickdraw).

7 hours ago, Blademaster72 said:

With passive sensors on Vader you need no bid, he locks at start of combat have full knowledge of board can then spend force to focus and barrel roll out of ark.

OOO! I didn't think of that. I thought passive sensors would put low initiative ordinance builds on the map in a big way. However, passive senors on your target lock loving aces reduces the need for a bid, therefore you can possibly have a phat ace build... EEEEE! You 'SUCK' ;) cause now I am even more excited for this upgrade! [he says while typing this at work during a meeting]

16 hours ago, Blademaster72 said:

With passive sensors on Vader you need no bid, he locks at start of combat have full knowledge of board can then spend force to focus and barrel roll out of ark.

But he looses FCS, right? Is it a good trade off? (I know we not know points yet).

1 hour ago, LUZ_TAK said:

But he looses FCS, right? Is it a good trade off? (I know we not know points yet).

There are plenty of people running Vader without FCS now. His in-built action economy reduces his need for FCS. Not a big loss, IMO.

7 hours ago, ChahDresh said:

There are plenty of people running Vader without FCS now. His in-built action economy reduces his need for FCS. Not a big loss, IMO.

Yeah, you NEED Afterburners but FCS is optional.

@Tharcas it's still great on low initiative ships, not all aces Vader is unique he gets lock at start of combat then he can spend force to do more actions. I'm excited to lock then barrel roll out of ark.

one word

Outclass SPAM

3 Outclass with proton torps and passive sensors ,

And duchess?

After the pointschange we will know!

Cutlasses seem like a good choice. Anyone with both a sensor slot and ordnance has potential (aside from the E-wing, who can lock at long range normally and doesn't need it).

Assuming Passive Sensors is about 5 points, then Cutlass (38) + Passives (5) + Torpedoes (12) does look nice.

Even if I've guessed wrong and/or points change, I can't see that being less than 50 points all-up, so you're not getting 4.

3 with some mines might be an interesting alternative, or else Redline as a substitute for the formation leader; he doesn't need passive sensors but I suspect Angled Deflectors will be right up his street since he can reinforce/lock with a single action, and at only agility 1 a reinforce token on a punisher is likely to do some reasonable work.

Probably only just Gunboats and Hyenas. Hyenas have easy-ish access to double mods. Gunboats seem like they'll be the best basic Torpedo + Passive Sensors ship.

**

While the Punisher is marginally tougher than a Gunboat, it's also a good deal more expensive, and the gunboat probably has more effective mobility. A 4K might be nice, but with a Cutlass being 6 points more than a Nu? I think I'm sticking with the Gunboat. But it's probably a totally fine way to build a Cutlass, if you really need to scratch that Punisher itch.

N-1s probably run into a lot of range control issues if they're trying to go PS and Torps. They've got to move fast to get their free evade (which they'll need in order to not-die), which means a canny opponent can probably jump from Range 4 to Range 1. I can't see them working out better than Gunboats, by and large. But that's mostly for the full-squad. I could maybe see a Torpedo N-1 or two as someone supporting a Jedi or two. But then, why not just bring aces like Ric Olie and skip Passive Sensors?

Other ships like B-Wings? It'll probably just be too expensive to bother with. A B-Wing is just a "worse" Punisher, when it comes to being a Passive Sensors + Torpedo ship, and Passive Sensors probably adds so little without Ordnance that I doubt it'll be worth the points. While B-Wing defenses don't really require a Focus token, the benefits of grabbing a late lock rather than an early focus seem pretty slim, and probably don't justify the cost. Like, it'd be better to just take Blades with Predator or Hull Upgrade over Blues with Passive Sensors, if those are the only upgrades on them. I think this same logic applies to something like a U-Wing or a Ghost. U-Wing gets a lot of mileage out of Focus due to 2 agility, but the 0-agility Ghost doesn't care. A late lock does have some benefits over a Focus, since it'll stick around if you don't need it. However, simply Focusing is free, while Passive Sensors won't be.

**

Whisper and Echo will probably only use it until Wave 5, since that's when Targeting Computer comes, and likely will be a cheaper way to add a Lock action to them.

To that end, Passive Sensors ought to have required a Lock action on the ship which equips it. That doesn't seem unfair. One of the busted tricks with Fire Control System as it was in 1e was how it could easily give Locks to ships without the Lock action.

**

The Vader trick to barrel roll before engagement is cute, but I think it's probably a bit over-hyped. There probably exists some list where it's worth it to fill to 200 points, have some lower-init stuff around that doesn't mind moving first. But there's a lot of benefit to simply moving last with the bid. Vader might not be the only Init 6, since Soontir is also Hyperspace. Afterburners are generally going to be better when moving 2nd, as well. Meanwhile, while FCS is cuttable, it's still added action economy. Having a lock stick around makes it a lot easier for Vader to pull red moves.

TIE SFs can do a similar cute thing, using the Lock to rotate their turret, but that's also more spiffy than good. I suppose Passive Sensors and a Missile might be a decent-enough alternative to Special Forces Gunner. However, it seems highly unlikely that any Passive Sensors/Missile SF is less than 40 points, and if it's in the same n-per-list bracket, I might rather just take Special Forces Gunner. Gunner builds will have better Range 1 shots, potential front/rear cleave attacks, and the safety (defensive focus/evade) or flexibility (barrel rolls, bumps, red moves) of not depending on the PSen action, at the cost of maybe guessing wrong. However, rear-arc guesses are some of the easier guesses in terms of things that a low-init ship has to guess at in X-Wing. If Fanatical worked on Missile attacks, a Fanatical Omega with Passive Sensors and Missiles might be a really sweet option, but Fanatical is primary-only.

Vynder might make some use of of PS

On 6/19/2019 at 2:32 AM, Blademaster72 said:

Vader     is   u   ni  q   u      e    

Poe can play at you Vader shenaniganrey too! ;)