I thought for sure Lars' semi-coherent post would kill this thread, but leave it to bloodycelt to finish it off.

haha. silly stags jokes are for kids!

Anyway, I agree that its probably a better idea to have different choices for a problem instead of just having everyone run frozen solid. However, we've had how many chapter packs and expansion boxes and yet there still isn't a good solution to attachment control that every house (or really any house other than targ and now stark [especially after they just banned compelled by the rock]) can use. And I'm saying that every house needs to have its own frozen solid or meereenese brothel, but they need to have SOMETHING to discard attachments.

EDIT: Also, it seems like weapons at the door would be a pretty nice reprint right now.

Wrecking Ball- Actually, it was an entirely different situation that I'm talking about where Cersei's Favor was added to The Blackfish to make him a nigh impervious stealthy tri-con. With the search Stark had at the time, Jeppedo got the pieces to put him together extremely easily. Frankly, as a way to keep Swayed by the light off characters, I'm rather ok with Cersei's Favor out of house.

Dobbler- The issue that I see though is that deck construction possibilities and resource management are two separate things, though I'll admit that have some measure of influence in the viability of the overall deck. The 5KE rare kingdoms were indeed a bad move as they really devalued the game economy. There was just too much of all resources going around in too easy a manner for management of those resources to be a priority. With the lower resource pool in the LCG era, building with out of house cards like an exact Frozen Solid reprint would actually have a higher effect on the viability of the overall deck and this make for harder decisions in construction and gameplay. Arbitrary restrictions don't favor difficult decisions. They only restrict choices, which can actually makes decisions easier.

Still, on this single card, I don't think it's the end of the world at all. I'd rather it have been a straight reprint, but oh well. The game goes on. As far as the overall game system goes..... I'm in favor of more choices.

I like the way that all the houses seem to be developing their own unique options so far. At this point I think every house but Lannister has some options. Some better than others but that's always been the case, just as some houses could kill or discard or cancel better than others. Targ attachment control just got some serious teeth with the brothel, Starks have some gods stuff on the way. I firmly believe Baratheons have a very good option for attachment hate (assuming he lives to dominance) you just have to deck build a bit to make sure you have some kingdom locations to trigger him (and yes I know that is a pain in the butt, but it IS possible and he is the ONLY non Targ attachment hate that hits ANY attachment). They also still have Maester Cressen. Greyjoys have the trusty Scurvy Cutthroat and of course the Winter Mauraders. Martells have the Maester of Lemonwood who can only hit Conditions but he can hit any number of them all at once.

So only Lannisters are left without anything house specific and that's only because Compelled was banned (which I'm still really not sure why, frankly I never really considered it that powerful an effect, it only really stood out because in the early days of the LCG most of those other options hadn't developed yet). If you really wanted to the Lannisters could play a lot of the other house's effects OOH. Not Frozen solid anymore maybe but if you were really worried about say negative attachments you could pop a couple Maesters of Lemonwood into a deck. Maybe I just don't really get why it's a big deal since I never used to use Frozen Solid OOH myself.

Personally where I would like to see a couple more options would be in resource possibilities. A couple more either neutral or maybe kingdom resources to give us some more deck building choices would be nice. After all these years with them I find that I really notice the lack of Rose/Searoads or it's replacement the Kingsroad Farmstead. Maybe I can look forward to that with the next block with it's "neutrals" focus.

Compelled was quite frankly, one of the most powerful anti atathcment effects ever printed. Not only did it effectively strip atathcments with nearly no cost in a low cancel environment, it acted as a perma steal effect. And taht was only for POSITIOVE attachments - it actaully made playing control attachments like Milk a freaking negative - but proffering the threat of having them tunred against you by the Lanister palyer.

it was a ridiculously powerful card and left Lannister with no (literally) in game weaknesses. Its necessary ban removed an overpowered card form the LCG pool as well as opening one small hole in a monolithic House defense.

It was a start.

Back on topic, upon building my greyjoy raid deck, I've fallen in love with Fishmonger's Square. There has not been a game yet where I have not pulled off this card's ability to draw. Between LIV and FS, greyjoy has two cards that have draw based on the house's strength win a challenge, discard the right cards. Which, I realized, is a form of contingent draw based ont he house's theme. Just like the targ character that gives you cards when an opponent's strength is reduced. So it appears we are getting some cards that have contingent draw effects. Stark will get the new Blackfish, and Baratheon...well, sorta has the short end of the stick, but dose have King Renly who fits this semi-slot of house-based draw.

Yes, Lannister has good draw, and Martell is (imo) the masters of draw and reveal effects. But i think the game is slowly starting to address this.

Kennon said:

First, I don't think that was a function of "Stark search," but rather then presence of _Spending the Winter Store_... I know I lost one of my 2004 Regional games in Springfield to Justin, specifically b/c Jerod & I didn't have enough experience playing against the Blackfish + Cersei's Favor b/c neither of us had one. :/ I think your continued issues with Lannister's "perceived" dominance and in a lesser manner, cards like Cersei's Favor & Devious Intentions, just shows how much more powerful some of their cards are.

When you're referring to Frozen Solid, why do you you use the term "arbitrary" when you describe restrictions. Do you think Nate had no reason for adding it to the card? Or that he didn't feel it's inclusioun was important to balance the environment? We don't see many "House X only" limitations outside of events & plots, but they usually matter.

There are quite a few cards I would have rather have had straight reprints of, but speaking as someone who played Stark back in the day, and didn't have to think about the inclusion of Frozen Solid when I flipped the Bolton deck from Stark/Treaty Lannister to Lannister/Treaty Stark, it would have made a big difference... and probably to the good.