Fenn Rau

By FriendofYoda, in X-Wing Rules Questions

Does Rebel Fenn stop opponents from using force to mod their dice? I.e. is using a force considered 'spending a token'?

No. Force has charges, not tokens and they are flipped, not spent.

Edited by thespaceinvader
1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:

No. Force has charges, not tokens and they are flipped, not spent.

Per the Rules Reference...

"While it performs an attack, a ship can spend any number of FORCE TOKENS during the Attack Dice step to change that number of its focus results to hit results."

"When a ship spends a charge, that charge is flipped to its inactive side."

So, using a force token is spending a token, it just recovers said token at the end phase.

22 minutes ago, shaunmerritt said:

Per the Rules Reference...

"While it performs an attack, a ship can spend any number of FORCE TOKENS during the Attack Dice step to change that number of its focus results to hit results."

"When a ship spends a charge, that charge is flipped to its inactive side."

So, using a force token is spending a token, it just recovers said token at the end phase.

No, force aren't tokens. The rules reference uses the force icon , not the phrase "force tokens"; spending force is not spending a token. Force is charges, which follow separate rules.

2 hours ago, shaunmerritt said:

Per  the Rules Reference...

"While it performs an attack, a ship can spend any number of FORCE TOKENS during the Attack Dice step to change that number of its focus results to hit results."

"When a ship spends a charge, that charge is flipped to its inactive side."

So, using a force token is spending  a token, it just recovers said token at the end phase.       

Where in the Rules Reference did this come from? I just carefully read Rules Reference (1.0.4) p7 the section on Charges does not use the word "token" anywhere related to regular or Force Charges, and on p19 the section on Tokens does not mention charges at all.

When I entered a search for the phrase "Force token" in the document the only thing that comes up is every instance of "Reinforce token" 😆

This does bring up a good line of question regarding what can be used that rebel Fenn does not prevent. Lone Wolf for example is also useable since it spends a charge, not a token.

Tokens are things that you put on the map next to ships. Normally this would be Focus, Calc, and Lock, but specific abilities may be able to allow other tokens to be spent.

If you look at page 20 of the rules reference (Last page) it shows a list of tokens (eg. focus, calc, lock) and then a list of markers (eg. force, shield, charge) so Fenn Raus ability does NOT stop your oppenent from spending force as it is not a token.

On 6/10/2019 at 1:50 PM, shaunmerritt said:

Per the Rules Reference...

"While it performs an attack, a ship can spend any number of FORCE TOKENS during the Attack Dice step to change that number of its focus results to hit results."

"When a ship spends a charge, that charge is flipped to its inactive side."

So, using a force token is spending a token, it just recovers said token at the end phase.

Your icon to text translation isn't correct i'm afraid. The Force icon represents a Force charge, not a token (see last sentence).

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Also, its important to know what spending a token means.

RR pg 19

Quote

When a ship is instructed to spend a token or there is an instruction to remove a token from a ship, a token of that type is returned from that ship to the supply.

Charges, Standard or Force, are never returned to the supply, so they are not spent in this manner. And as stated above, its not a token in the mechanical sense. So it does appear that Fenn cannot prevent charges being spent to modify dice.

Is this confirmed by FFG staff?

As I understood only Midnight and Dinee can, but this does not make sense to me, force is a bit overpowered, there is need of counters for it.

Edited by player1688298