Maul crew is 11pts...

Maul is 11 poins just like Palpatine. Palpatine is so much better though, seems like Scum is dealing with a lot of overcost in general.

7 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Maul crew is 11pts...

lol. its is indeed. i missed that. seems not quite as good as palp and is same cost?

what i meant to say was id like to see maul 2pts cheaper.

all factions r paying a premium for force so i can see how FG might be cautious with any adjustments to force users.

force is powerful afterall. especially since u can use force even while stressed to mod dice.

maul on ketsu is great. ships get punished for blocking u auto tractor token... move them into ur range 1 firing arc, onto a rock or into the path of a friendly range 1 arc.

iv tested with maul on asajj and its pretty good too. not seeing maul appear on many other ships tho. sort of paints a bullseye on the ship maul goes on so u need to put him on something tanky.

20 minutes ago, Da_Brown_Bomber said:

I wonder if Maul crew will get a sml pts drop. 13pts 11pts is a lot but i guess its in line with what other factions are paying, although Palpatine seems as good better than maul and only costs 11.

Honestly feel that all the Imperial force crew are better value than Maul.

Maul is OK on Ketsu because she really needs that passive modifier. The extra ability of Maul (to take stress for a force recharge) seems hardly ever useful because the Lancer really doesn´t want to get stressed if it´s primarily using the front arc. I would rather take Kanan with his extra ability for a point more if he was Scum just to take another example. But, Maul is still being used so maybe he is not in need of a big adjustment. Would be nice to see him drop to 10 though in my opinion.

Maul is excellent on Sabine caster due to her ability

But that's about all that inspires me regarding him

16 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Maul is excellent on Sabine caster due to her ability

But that's about all that inspires me regarding him

thats strong for sure but atinit 4 those inti 5 and int 6 can outposition you handily. init 3-4 pilots need a buff across the board. not seeing the tables as much as they should.

Fenn should be cheaper; that stupid Escape Craft should be more expensive.

3 hours ago, Cuz05 said:

VTG + Shadowcaster may not be amusing.

Understatement of the year.

Ketsu with Veteran Turret Gunner would be one of the most obnoxious and toxic things FFG could do. Range 1 is a tractor token for free. The Front V and turret attacks both almost surely hit at range 1 against reduced agility, so one more tractor token each. BOOM. You've tractored a large-base ship. It's now on a rock. The only reason the Shadowcaster title could be printed is because this is a ship which cannot double-tap.

Shadowcaster cannot really exist with a gunner slot, unless a banlist is created to prevent specifically Veteran Turret Gunner from being equipped.

I'd say this is more of an argument for a banlist (ban R2-D2 and Inertial Dampeners together, ban Shadowcaster and Veteran Turret Gunner together, ban C-3PO on Leebo after giving Leebo back his crew slot), than it's an argument against a gunner slot on a Lancer.

13 hours ago, Da_Brown_Bomber said:

1. khirax fighter needs help. Talonbane is ok as is but the rest should be a few points cheaper. Would be nice to see them get a super cheap modification. having three mod slots is just wasted here.

The only pilot I can really see a cost reduction for is Viktor Hel (and even then only 1 point), since his ability does so little without adding Stealth Device. However, Graz is extra attack dice, which is a pretty premium ability. Is it super easy? Not always, but it's still bonus red dice, and I don't really think it needs a cut. Might be easier than Scourge's bonus die in Bullseye. Jostero is the cost of a generic with a 1 point talent, which can grant a bonus attack. That's fair for 1 point more than an Init 3 Black Sun Ace. Kihraxz, like the Republic ARC, seems to be a ship which serves as a model for how other ships should be priced, IMHO.

But I'd love for some form of Vaksai to come back, but I'd probably have it work only on modification upgrades. I'd want to design it so that it isn't just grabbing up all the cheap upgrades you now get for free, but rather something to enable not-sucking when overloading with expensive modifications. I like the "convertible ship" design of the TIE/sf and the Aethersprite with or without Delta 7B, and it'd be cool to bring some of that to the Kihraxz/Vaksai. It should almost feel like it's a different ship. With Hull and Shield and the defensive abilities and inclinations of the aces, they wind up being able to take a surprising amount of punishment. TBC is gets the extra range 3 die, Graz can get extra against a rear arc or turret shot, and Viktor Hel almost surely equips Stealth Device.

I don't know whatever final wording I'd go with. Maybe 1 point for "Reduce the cost of all Modifications by 2, to a minimum of 0" might do it. That'd keep it from being a 5-per-list ship, would set the Init 2/3 versions of an 8 HP Kihraxz at minimum 48/50 points respectively. 58 points for 8 HP Talonbane, 62 with Afterburners or Stealth Device. 57 for 8 HP Viktor Hel with Stealth Device. That just feels right to me.

Sort of depends on what they decide to do with other factions and generic upgrades - do you put Rebel points up so they're a match for Scum, or drop Scum points down so they're as strong as Rebels? - but here we go:

• 1-2 points off illicits, except for Rigged Cargo and Inertial Dampeners. Most of them don't get used, and currently there are several ships paying for an illicit slot which is almost always empty.
• Price reductions on a several of the big ships. Large ships are not doing great in general right now, and Scum have a lot of big ships so it's extra painful for them.
• Either point reductions for generic and I2-4 named pilots, or point increases for a lot of the I5 and I6 pilots across all factions. I feel like there are a lot of pilots with interesting abilities that just never see play because the most expensive pilot is just clearly better for the points (Guri, Boba, Talonbane, Dengar, etc.).
• Point reduction for Khiraxzs specifically (except perhaps Talonbane). I think they're just not as efficient as ships at a similar price point. In the long term I'd like to see a better fix than just drop the points, since they have a load of upgrade slots which aren't interesting and never get used, but until FFG start releasing card packs that's not happening.

There's nothing Scum-specific that really stands out to me as needing a cost increase at the moment. This may be somewhat self-serving as I mostly play Scum, but they also just haven't been doing well in tournaments. It's hard to point at something as being too strong when Scum lists are uncommon and not performing especially well.

20 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I'd want to design it so that it isn't just grabbing up all the cheap upgrades you now get for free, but rather something to enable not-sucking when overloading with expensive modifications. I like the "convertible ship" design of the TIE/sf and the Aethersprite with or without Delta 7B, and it'd be cool to bring some of that to the Kihraxz/Vaksai. It should almost feel like it's a different ship

Yeah this for sure.

Bring back the discount as-was and you can just stack defense and that's kind of it.

1 hour ago, Hawkstrike said:

Fenn should be cheaper

Yeah, no

Fenn is at a price point I 6s should be held up to

Don't wanna encourage yet more high I spam

21 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Yeah, no

Fenn is at a price point I 6s should be held up to

Don't wanna encourage yet more high I spam

agree. the lower init Fangfighter generics could be a few points cheaper tho imo. 50pts for int 4 isn't bad but its not seeing the table.

17 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Yeah, no

Fenn is at a price point I 6s should be held up to

Don't wanna encourage yet more high I spam

8 minutes ago, Da_Brown_Bomber said:

agree. the lower init generics could be a few points cheaper tho imo. 50pts for int 4 isn't bad but its not seeing the table.

Um.... From their quip about the Escape Craft I think they mean Rebel Fenn Rau:

Scum Fenn should not cost more than Darth Vader. 3 force on Vader is amazing and the Fang has no mod slot, so no Afterburners etc. People still believe Fenn is badass, but the only Scum list that wins anything these days is Drea-Loks.

52 minutes ago, Sixter said:

Scum Fenn should not cost more than Darth Vader. 3 force on Vader is amazing and the Fang has no mod slot, so no Afterburners etc. People still believe Fenn is badass, but the only Scum list that wins anything these days is Drea-Loks.

Doesn't mean Fenn is bad, though. The overall context of a faction matters, I think.

To contrast Vader, the list building options are better. Starting in Hyperspace, Vader has a nice buddy in Soontir, and decent options for the last few points in 3 TIEs or 2 Bombers or 2 Strikers/Alphas. Fenn doesn't have an Init 6 Ace pal, but Old T is nice. The rest of the list? Guri is strong, but hard to fit in terms of list-math. Fenn with 3 Fangs (or my sneaky-fav 4 Ion Scyks) aren't too bad, but having more than one high-init ship is usually best. And 3 Zealous Recruits probably isn't as good as 3 Imdaar Test Pilots.

I bet Fenn + 3x Imdaars would do well. Or Fenn + Soontir + 2x Bomber. If Vader was stranded in Scum, I don't think he'd be doing as well as he is in Empire. Better than Fenn does now? Maybe. But having better ships around him certainly helps.

15 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Doesn't mean Fenn is bad, though. The overall context of a faction matters, I think.

To contrast Vader, the list building options are better. Starting in Hyperspace, Vader has a nice buddy in Soontir, and decent options for the last few points in 3 TIEs or 2 Bombers or 2 Strikers/Alphas. Fenn doesn't have an Init 6 Ace pal, but Old T is nice. The rest of the list? Guri is strong, but hard to fit in terms of list-math. Fenn with 3 Fangs (or my sneaky-fav 4 Ion Scyks) aren't too bad, but having more than one high-init ship is usually best. And 3 Zealous Recruits probably isn't as good as 3 Imdaar Test Pilots.

I bet Fenn + 3x Imdaars would do well. Or Fenn + Soontir + 2x Bomber. If Vader was stranded in Scum, I don't think he'd be doing as well as he is in Empire. Better than Fenn does now? Maybe. But having better ships around him certainly helps.

interesting points. i think imp of the supporting cast does matter. lets give fenn some better wingmates. the init 4 fang fighters could fit the bill if they were a little cheaper. 50pts doesnt leave much room to beef them up. same for generic starvipers, theyr solid but are in noman's land st init 3.

khirax fighters could be decent wingmen if their abilities werent so situational. still, Talonbane is good as is, just the lesser name pilots need some help.

Dengar could be paired with Fenn but hes still not quite there as a stand alone ship.

Old Teroch init 5 is one of scums best pilots in terms of value. 56pts. linked action. superb dial. relevant ability that can really wreck an unprepared opponent. hes probably my most played scum pilot right now... used to be 4-LOM but then adv sensors got hiked up to 10.

Boba should absolutely come down. 86 points is way too much. He was overnerfed completely out of the game in the last update. Other Firesprays should also come down somewhat.

2 minutes ago, PhantomFO said:

Boba should absolutely come down. 86 points is way too much. He was overnerfed completely out of the game in the last update. Other Firesprays should also come down somewhat.

yeah, han gunner and marauder going up was enough but to hit Boba too was OTT. making the other name pilots cheaper would help... when is the last time u saw Kath Scarlet or Koska Frost or Kressis Trelix on the table?

8 minutes ago, Da_Brown_Bomber said:

when is the last time u saw Kath Scarlet or Koska Frost or Kressis Trelix on the table?

Last week. A buddy was trying out a Han pilot, Koshka, Seevor list for an upcoming Hyperspace trial in the San Joaquin.

18 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Last week. A buddy was trying out a Han pilot, Koshka, Seevor list for an upcoming Hyperspace trial in the San Joaquin.

Respect. none gonna see that coming.

Just now, Da_Brown_Bomber said:

Respect. none gonna see that coming.

He's not taking it. Not exactly sure why, but my scrub self pasting it with a Quad Predator Assassin list might have contributed to the decision.

1 minute ago, Hiemfire said:

He's not taking it. Not exactly sure why, but my scrub self pasting it with a Quad Predator Assassin list might have contributed to the decision.

hmmm, quad assassins eh? So he taking a shiny new short sword and chainmail into the fight and you show up with uzi machine guns.

3 minutes ago, Da_Brown_Bomber said:

hmmm, quad assassins eh? So he taking a shiny new short sword and chainmail into the fight and you show up with uzi machine guns.

He's been trying to get Han to work for him since 2.0 started and to be fair both Lando's Falcon and Koshka's ability forced some action choices on my side to keep from giving the bonuses.