**Reposted from Armada Organized Play (probably fits better here in general discussion ^^')**

Let me preface this by stating this idea only really applies to squadron-heavy lists.

So, I'm sure plenty of people know the power of heavy squadron lists: bombers and/or multi-role squads in high numbers to exhaust an enemy ship's defenses. Obviously, one of the key strategies for this is getting big alpha-strikes in, most often using "Intel" squadrons to dampen enemy squadrons' ability to protect enemy ships from attack. However, I do often wonder to myself, is there a case to be made for alt versions of ships that seem to exist (at least in-part) for anti-squadron and/or kitting out multi-purpose ships for heavy squadron support via ship-to-squadron attack.

Of course there are the more obvious ones: Quasar-Fire Carriers, Neb-B Escorts, and flotillas that are already there to activate squadrons, but I'm talking also of the more expensive ships that don't get much shine: Assault Frigate Mk2 As, Gladiator IIs, heck I'd even throw in the Raider II. On top of that, there's upgrades to think of as well (General Draven, ordinance pods, DTTs for the red-die chance, etc.).

I guess the TLDR here is, has anyone here had big success with putting more into their anti-squadron game ship-wise when making a squadron list? Bonus points if you've found ways to use normally hard-to-use cards (like cluster bombs or point-defense reroute). Thanks!

A Gladiator II with Demo, Kallus, OE, ET and flechette is legit in a meta with heavy aces

4 minutes ago, Grand Moff Deadblom said:

A Gladiator II with Demo, Kallus, OE, ET and flechette is legit in a meta with heavy aces

That does seem to be the golden-child of this area of strategy.

I'm just wondering if there are any admirals who've come across some more unusual combos and/or ones using Alliance ships and upgrades (seems the vast majority of ship anti-squadron builds come out of the Empire's wheelhouse)?

Draven is worth a look for the Rebels, he works with all forms of anti-squad shooting so long as the enemy has intel or counter (and Dengar is a classic case where he has intel and gives everyone else counter)

He kicks in with anti-squad fire from ships, Ord Pods and QLT's so can actually really beef up a ship set up to anti-squad.

I made a super Flak MC-75 once and my buddy happened to bring something pretty close to a Thrawn 2 ship. Flanked the MC with Y-wings and VCXs for targets...erm, support.

MC75 Armored Cruiser (104)
• General Draven (3)
• Ruthless Strategists (4)
• Electronic Countermeasures (7)
• Ordnance Pods (3)
• Leading Shots (4)
• H9 Turbolasers (8)
= 133 Points

It did a tremendous job clearing the skies, the 1.5 turns the std Imp swarm showed up and lasted. It then went on to do next to nothing to the ISD and due to poor planning with the rest of the fleet, exploded in a ball of fire.

But that one round where the scatter aces melted was just a pure delight.

I haven’t succeeded in building a balanced fleet around it though. I dream of the possibilities though.

20 minutes ago, cadetvw said:

I made a super Flak MC-75 once and my buddy happened to bring something pretty close to a Thrawn 2 ship. Flanked the MC with Y-wings and VCXs for targets...erm, support.

MC75 Armored Cruiser (104)
• General Draven (3)
• Ruthless Strategists (4)
• Electronic Countermeasures (7)
• Ordnance Pods (3)
• Leading Shots (4)
• H9 Turbolasers (8)
= 133 Points

It did a tremendous job clearing the skies, the 1.5 turns the std Imp swarm showed up and lasted. It then went on to do next to nothing to the ISD and due to poor planning with the rest of the fleet, exploded in a ball of fire.

But that one round where the scatter aces melted was just a pure delight.

I haven’t succeeded in building a balanced fleet around it though. I dream of the possibilities though.

I appreciate that insight. Trying something kinda similar for a 600pt list (sub the y-wings and vcxs for a ton of X-wings including all the aces [no Rogue Squad] and Jan). We'll see tomorrow how that turns out. *knock on wood*

MC75 Armored Cruiser "Firaxan" (104)

• General Draven (3)
• Gunnery Team (7) *for being able to shoot squads and ships same turn
• Hardened Bulkheads (5)
• ECM (7)
• Ordnance Pods (3)
• Leading Shots (4)

Don't forget Toryn Farr on a flotilla improves flak too. Especially if you have QLT.

16 minutes ago, Bertie Wooster said:

Don't forget Toryn Farr on a flotilla improves flak too. Especially if you have QLT.

My 600pt list is doing this as well (chiefly because x-wings, of course)

3 hours ago, Bertie Wooster said:

Don't forget Toryn Farr on a flotilla improves flak too. Especially if you have QLT.

Toryn and Draven together can be a hard hitter for the Rebels.

16 minutes ago, Englishpete said:

Toryn and Draven together can be a hard hitter for the Rebels.

Question is, what ship to put Draven on? A double-blue for more Toryn power, or an MC75 for the Ord-pods? I mean, right now I have the latter, but I can't help but wonder (after all, with a double-blue you can start smacking Cienna and all other interceptor aces around at medium range )

3 hours ago, Cruzer said:

Question is, what ship to put Draven on? A double-blue for more Toryn power, or an MC75 for the Ord-pods? I mean, right now I have the latter, but I can't help but wonder (after all, with a double-blue you can start smacking Cienna and all other interceptor aces around at medium range )

The MC75 has so many things it really wants to take in that slot, though. Walex, Lando, SAd, Intel Officer; it's a hard sell. Really opportunity cost is a huge problem if you want to go beyond tacking Draven onto a flotilla. Not all lists have squads to kill with flak. Every single list has ships to kill with other stuff. And a smart opponent will delay engagement to try baiting you into a single frenzied turn where he has the ship-to-ship advantage; the flak is tough to use when their squads don't move in. Not that it can't work, just not so great with large bases.

On that note, as a thought experiment, has the Ordnance Cruiser been mentioned yet? It has single die flak, but it's the only ship that can bring Ordnance Pods and Flechette Torpedoes, making it slightly better than a Raider-1 (they can't brace or scatter as effectively against the 75 if they've already activated or you don't get the crit) and giving it double Draven value.

1 hour ago, The Jabbawookie said:

The MC75 has so many things it really wants to take in that slot, though. Walex, Lando, SAd, Intel Officer; it's a hard sell. Really opportunity cost is a huge problem if you want to go beyond tacking Draven onto a flotilla. Not all lists have squads to kill with flak. Every single list has ships to kill with other stuff. And a smart opponent will delay engagement to try baiting you into a single frenzied turn where he has the ship-to-ship advantage; the flak is tough to use when their squads don't move in. Not that it can't work, just not so great with large bases.

On that note, as a thought experiment, has the Ordnance Cruiser been mentioned yet? It has single die flak, but it's the only ship that can bring Ordnance Pods and Flechette Torpedoes, making it slightly better than a Raider-1 (they can't brace or scatter as effectively against the 75 if they've already activated or you don't get the crit) and giving it double Draven value.

Because same deal - why ords and flechettes when you can APT-ExRax for the ship kill, and still have ExRax for a clutch antisqyad shot?

Its all on compromise after all - in lieu of compromise people note that ship wipes are a tabling, but squad wipes aren’t, so prioritize.

Raider I (44)
• Agent Kallus (3)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• Flechette Torpedoes (3)
= 54 Points

I've found out recently that this combined with some squadrons and occasionally the instigator title can ruin someones day if used right. Prevent the enemy squads from attacking while your fighters pick them off. Also not completely useless against ships thanks to the OE.

Imperial Star Destroyer Kuat Refit (112 points)
- Agent Kallus ( 3 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Early Warning System ( 7 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
- Flechette Torpedoes ( 3 points)
= 133 total ship cost

I've been thinking a lot about trying to make this work. The consistency of the roll as well as the ability to funnel squads into particular arcs is super nice. It does pidgeon hole an ISD in that function, though.

I mean, it's still an ISD with leading shots and OE. It will still hurt ya.

9 hours ago, Cruzer said:

Question is, what ship to put Draven on? A double-blue for more Toryn power, or an MC75 for the Ord-pods? I mean, right now I have the latter, but I can't help but wonder (after all, with a double-blue you can start smacking Cienna and all other interceptor aces around at medium range )

It's a tough call really, mainly predicated by the make-up of the rest of your fleet. I tend to find an MC75 Armoured Crusier the way to go and use Flechettes and a Gunnery Team. Xi-7's for the Turbolasers so the anti-ship dice are still useful.
It's a real balancing game for Rebels to anti-squad using ships as it weakens them far more than sticking Kallus on an ISD or Raider does.

I am finding that with Sloane/Dengar/Howlrunner/Mithal combos and some Interceptors the shear squadron and ship killing power of Imperial squads now is insane. An Interceptor can now get counter 4 easily so 8 blue dice per turn with Sloane vs squads means even the Biggs ball melts.

Also, against ships, with a moderate fighter ball of 7 squads containing the aforementioned 'super 4' you'll be losing you defense tokens rapidly for the ISD or Glads to finish you quickly.

I think a well kitted Rebel anti-squad ship is becoming a bit more of a consideration than it ever was before.

This is a decent rebel AS platform

Hammerhead Torpedo Corvette (36)
- Quad Laser Turrets (5)
- General Draven (3)
- Flechette Torpedoes (3)
- Ordnance Experts (4)
= 51 total points

Also, anyone thought about Jaina’s Light as a Draven ride/cheap flak delivery boat that could also shoot ships? It’s an always unobstructed attack and with TRCs still works on ships. With Toryn nearby on the ubiquitous flotilla there’s a decent chance of damage sticking to squads too!

35 minutes ago, cadetvw said:

Also, anyone thought about Jaina’s Light as a Draven ride/cheap flak delivery boat that could also shoot ships? It’s an always unobstructed attack and with TRCs still works on ships. With Toryn nearby on the ubiquitous flotilla there’s a decent chance of damage sticking to squads too!

Oh, that’s an idea. In fact, Draven can add a die of any color... so you can make that extra one red and use TRC on a (non-scatter) squad or two.

10 minutes ago, Tayloraj100 said:

Oh, that’s an idea. In fact, Draven can add a die of any color... so you can make that extra one red and use TRC on a (non-scatter) squad or two.

Holy smokes Batman! Now there’s some thinking. Guess what is now for sure in my next fleet. And then you throw in a concentrate fire...

14 hours ago, Englishpete said:

It's a tough call really, mainly predicated by the make-up of the rest of your fleet. I tend to find an MC75 Armoured Crusier the way to go and use Flechettes and a Gunnery Team. Xi-7's for the Turbolasers so the anti-ship dice are still useful.
It's a real balancing game for Rebels to anti-squad using ships as it weakens them far more than sticking Kallus on an ISD or Raider does.

I am finding that with Sloane/Dengar/Howlrunner/Mithal combos and some Interceptors the shear squadron and ship killing power of Imperial squads now is insane. An Interceptor can now get counter 4 easily so 8 blue dice per turn with Sloane vs squads means even the Biggs ball melts.

Also, against ships, with a moderate fighter ball of 7 squads containing the aforementioned 'super 4' you'll be losing you defense tokens rapidly for the ISD or Glads to finish you quickly.

I think a well kitted Rebel anti-squad ship is becoming a bit more of a consideration than it ever was before.

Speak of the devil: I tried out my 600pter today and the amount of hurt that Draven and the other multi-dice anti-squad ships brought to my opponent's counter squads was NUTS! I didn't suffer counter once and they had Dengar and Howlrunner on-board along with 3 interceptors. In the end, I'd taken their squads from 10 to 2 and still had about half of my own 10 (at death's door, but still).

35 minutes ago, cadetvw said:

Holy smokes Batman! Now there’s some thinking. Guess what is now for sure in my next fleet. And then you throw in a concentrate fire...

Pfft, and here I was gonna suggest DTTs for a red die. That kicks the crap out of my idea XD

11 hours ago, Cruzer said:

Speak of the devil: I tried out my 600pter today and the amount of hurt that Draven and the other multi-dice anti-squad ships brought to my opponent's counter squads was NUTS! I didn't suffer counter once and they had Dengar and Howlrunner on-board along with 3 interceptors. In the end, I'd taken their squads from 10 to 2 and still had about half of my own 10 (at death's door, but still).

Yeah that's painful. Source: I was the opponent. 😀

I got a little saucey with a Squall assisted T1 strike and that turned out to be a bit more than I could handle. Expert play to carve out Dengar from the heart of my squad ball also make my life difficult. GG as always @Cruzer

3 hours ago, webv said:

Yeah that's painful. Source: I was the opponent. 😀

I got a little saucey with a Squall assisted T1 strike and that turned out to be a bit more than I could handle. Expert play to carve out Dengar from the heart of my squad ball also make my life difficult. GG as always @Cruzer

Indeed, it was a tense fight to say the least. Honestly, I'm unsure how well it would run against a non fighter-heavy list (don't get me wrong, 7 bombers and 1 Jan could do 8 damage a turn, but even-so that's at least 6 points on my list that goes immediately dead XP). It does have clear advantage against Sloan tho.

17 hours ago, Tayloraj100 said:

Oh, that’s an idea. In fact, Draven can add a die of any color... so you can make that extra one red and use TRC on a (non-scatter) squad or two.

TRC is exhaust, so you can only use it on one squad (per round). GREAT idea though.

For our local narrative campaign, using renforcement rules similar to Middle Earth Battle Companies, one of the Rebel ship captains got his hands on some BWINGs and bought the expanded hanger bay upgrade for his Hammerhead (For this campaign, fleets can only have as many squadrons as your command value)... he flew his XWINGs way out there when the VICs had the, get to do a free anti-squad attack at the end of shooting.

The rebels learned the power of anti-squadron fire that day.