RR v1.04

• Revealed maneuver == currently selected maneuver
• Proach/Seevor now work properly
  • via a new clause under Paying Costs "Replacement effects can replace a cost that a ship would pay for an effect. If a cost is replaced in this way, the effect is still resolved"
• Misc stuff related to new mechanics (remotes, fuses, plasma torps, ep bomb)

Ric Olie approves of the revealed maneuver definition.

7 minutes ago, Skitch_ said:

Ric Olie approves of the revealed maneuver definition.

I loved the convos this lead to:

Me: "revealed maneuver" could either mean "maneuver that was revealed" or "maneuver that is revealed" and still be valid English

Other guy: Nah dude it says "REVEALED"

the search for points continues

Just now, svelok said:

the search for points continues

Have you been summoning them properly?

27 minutes ago, prauxim said:

via a new clause under Paying Costs "Replacement effects can replace a cost that a ship would pay for an effect. If a cost is replaced in this way, the effect is still resolved"

This means Andrasta and R2 Astromech are very happy with Yushyn.

Jury is still out on Static Discharge Vanes and Feedback Array. How would you rule? It seems that "if you do" implies that you did in fact take that token, but I could also see the argument that you "did" except you replaced it with a different one. They did specifically say it doesn't apply to "after" effects since the timing window doesn't exist (you never took the token so there is no after).

Curious.

10 minutes ago, AceDogbert said:

Have you been summoning them properly?

Because we’ll be having words if you get it wrong and accidentally summon an elder god to bring about the end of existence...

16 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

This means Andrasta and R2 Astromech are very happy with Yushyn.

Jury is still out on Static Discharge Vanes and Feedback Array. How would you rule? It seems that "if you do" implies that you did in fact take that token, but I could also see the argument that you "did" except you replaced it with a different one. They did specifically say it doesn't apply to "after" effects since the timing window doesn't exist (you never took the token so there is no after).

Curious.

Don't see why it wouldn't work. Seevor is worded the same as Feedback "you may gain a token, if you do [...]" and per explicit FAQ Seevor works now

14 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

This means Andrasta and R2 Astromech are very happy with Yushyn.

Jury is still out on Static Discharge Vanes and Feedback Array. How would you rule? It seems that "if you do" implies that you did in fact take that token, but I could also see the argument that you "did" except you replaced it with a different one. They did specifically say it doesn't apply to "after" effects since the timing window doesn't exist (you never took the token so there is no after).

Curious.

I'm starting to wonder what game you're actually playing. After is a very specific timing that does not appear on either upgrade.

RR Section on Timing:

Timing

There are several terms that are used to indicate the specific timing of an effect:

Before: The effect resolves immediately preceding the timing specified.

At the start of: This timing is used with a specific phase or step. The effect triggers before anything occurs during that phase or step.

While: This term is often used in combination with multi-stepped game effects such as an attack, an action, or a maneuver. Although less specific than the other timings, this term is used to narrow down when the ability is resolved during the round. Additional verbiage is required to identify when exactly the effect is applied.

For example, in the context of an attack, if the ability rolls additional attack dice, the ability triggers during the Roll Attack Dice step. If the ability modifies defense dice, the ability triggers during the Modify Defense Dice step.

At the end of: This timing is used with a specific phase or step of ship's activation. This effect triggers after the normal effects of that phase or step have occurred.

After: The effect resolves immediately following the timing specified.

The ability queue is used to resolve abilities that would resolve simultaneously.

From the RR 1.04 on page 28:

Q: If a ship would gain a disarm token as part of paying the
cost of an effect, such as Foreman Proach [Modified
TIE/ln Fighter] or Quinn Jast [M3-A Interceptor], but
Overseer Yushyn [Modified TIE/ln Fighter] causes them to
gain a stress token instead, does the effect still resolve?
A: Yes. Overseer Yushyn [Modified TIE/ln Fighter]’s ability is a replacement
effect, and if it replaces part of the cost a ship would pay to resolve an
effect (in this case, the disarm token that ship would gain), that effect still
resolves (see page 2, “Paying Costs”).
Note that abilities that would resolve “after a ship gains a disarm token”
still do not resolve, as this is a timing window that has not occurred,
rather than a cost that has been replaced.

Replacement effects and paying costs (RR 1.04 page 2):

Replacement Effects
Some abilities are substitutive in nature—they replace how an effect would
normally resolve. These abilities use the words “would” and “instead.”
• Replacement effects are not added to the end of the ability queue as they
are resolved at the timing of the effect they are replacing.
• When a replacement effect resolves, the replaced effect is treated as
having not occurred.
◊ For example, Jyn Erso’s ability says “If a friendly ship at range 0–3
would gain a focus token, it may gain 1 evade token instead.” If this
ability is used, an effect that triggers after a ship gains a focus token
cannot trigger.
• If there are multiple replacement effects that could substitute for the
same effect, only one effect can be substituted for the original effect.
◊ For example, a ship is about to gain a focus token and has both the
ability “Before you would gain a focus token, gain an evade token
instead” and the ability “Before you would gain a focus token, gain a
calculate token instead.” Only one of those abilities could be resolved.
Paying Costs
A ship can pay a cost for an effect only if the effect can be resolved.
• For example, GNK “Gonk” Droid’s ability says “Action: Spend 1 󲈮 to
recover 1 shield.” The ship cannot spend the charge if it has no inactive
shields.
• Replacement effects can replace a cost that a ship would pay for an
effect. If a cost is replaced in this way, the effect is still resolved.

Quote

Before you would gain 1 ion or jam token, if you are not stressed, you may choose another ship at range 0-1 and gain 1 stress token. If you do, the chosen ship gains that ion or jam token instead.

Quote

Before a friendly ship at range 1 would gain a disarm token, if that ship is not stressed, you may spend 1 . If you do, that ship gains 1 stress token instead.

SDV and Yushyn are both replacement effects including the words "would" and "instead", replacement effects count as paying the cost, can't see any reason why it wouldn't work according to the rulebook. Personally, I'd rule SDV and FA fully work together now.

1 minute ago, Enigami said:

SDV and Yushyn are both replacement effects including the words "would" and "instead", replacement effects count as paying the cost, can't see any reason why it wouldn't work according to the rulebook. Personally, I'd rule SDV and FA fully work together now.

They do. Previously the combo just disarmed the ship using it and gave an Ion Token to someone else. Now it also causes damage to every ship at range 0 of the ship using the combo. Bugzappers just got teeth.

Bugzapers affect the bugzaping ship as it is at r0 of itself, right.

19 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

I'm starting to wonder what game you're actually playing. After is a very specific timing that does not appear on either upgrade.

3 minutes ago, Cpt.Kirk006 said:

Bugzapers affect the bugzaping ship as it is at r0 of itself, right.

Yes.

48 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

I'm starting to wonder what game you're actually playing. After is a very specific timing that does not appear on either upgrade.

That's exactly what I'm saying. There are 3 different wordings:

a) You may receive a disarm to recover a shield.

b) You may receive a disarm. If you do, recover a shield.

c) After you receive a disarm, recover a shield.

They ruled very clearly that (a) works and (c) doesn't. FA and SDV both use the wording (b). Does the question make sense now?

2 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

That's exactly what I'm saying. There are 3 different wordings:

a) You may receive a disarm to recover a shield.

b) You may receive a disarm. If you do, recover a shield.

c) After you receive a disarm, recover a shield.

They ruled very clearly that (a) works and (c) doesn't. FA and SDV both use the wording (b). Does the question make sense now?

Just tells me you don't read the upgrades.

2 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Just tells me you don't read the upgrades.

You got me. I thought Proach was worded the same way as R2 astromech. Cool, so it works!

Just now, ClassicalMoser said:

You got me. I thought Proach was worded the same way as R2 astromech. Cool, so it works!

Proach:

Before you engage, you may choose 1 enemy ship in your bullseye arc at range 1-2 and gain 1 disarm token. If you do, that ship gains 1 tractor token.

R2 Astromech:

After you reveal your dial, you may spend 1 charge and gain 1 disarm token to recover 1 shield.

Where are you getting after you receive the token for either?

2 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Proach:

Before you engage, you may choose 1 enemy ship in your bullseye arc at range 1-2 and gain 1 disarm token. If you do, that ship gains 1 tractor token.

R2 Astromech:

After you reveal your dial, you may spend 1 charge and gain 1 disarm token to recover 1 shield.

Where are you getting after you receive the token for either?

The RR specifically says that after doesn't work with replacement abilities. I know that none of those cards references the "after" keyword. But that was the reason I had doubt over the "if you do" wording.

Lieutenant Karsabi is the only card I can find that says "After you gain a disarm token".

11 minutes ago, Nspace said:

Lieutenant Karsabi is the only card I can find that says "After you gain a disarm token".

Yeah I think that's it, and Rivas says "after you gain an orange/red token". There's several more for stress/ion though.

xwing data tables is great for this purpose

Static Discharge Veins just got nasty on Black One.

Plasma Torps suddenly have my attention- removing a shield after the Neutralize Results step but before Deal Damage is pretty potent. Stripping off a single shield before your damage goes in is nasty, especially against single shield ships that rely on that shield to give them a slight buffer before taking hull damage.

11 hours ago, DexterOnone said:

Because we’ll be having words if you get it wrong and accidentally summon an elder god to bring about the end of existence...

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn?

1 hour ago, FTS Gecko said:

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn?

HASTUR! HASTUR! HAS...